Black Pearl 88 vs Santa Ana 88 (Shorter Lengths)

[Miller]

Forgive me if this has been asked before. My wife is ready for an upgrade on skis. We ski primarily in the mid Atlantic, but also up north in VT and everywhere out west. I would categorize her as a confident intermediate skier who primarily likes to cruise. She is currently on a pair of Nordica Astral 78s in a 144. The reason for the new pair is that she is not as confident with this skis if conditions aren't groomed. She gets pushed around in softer or heavier snow.

She is 5' tall and I won't put her weight on here, but she is very athletic.

We have been looking at the Santa Ana 88 and Black Pearl 88 as possible replacements. She likes a shorter ski, so we are looking at 151 and 153 lengths. Both of these lengths would be longer than what she has now.

How do these skis compare in these shorter lengths. Is one more forgiving than the other?

Thanks

 

[Delicious]

My wife skis the Santa Ana, and has demoed the BP. She likes both. I feel like it should come down to the following criteria.
1. Graphics, color, appearance. She should be EXCITED when she looks at her new skis.
2. Tune. Specifically base bevel. More specifically, have them tuned to a 1-1.5 degree base bevel. While this is what the ski spec's will indicate stock, results will vary on a new ski, especially the Blizzard. This will assure the forgiving feel that she's after in 3D snow.
The snow conditions in your pics look great for these 2 skis.

 

[SSSdave]

As someone not in the industry, little me at 5.6 135# has no experience on the current considerable numbers of mid fat skis except I have been skiing 2020 Santa Ana 88's at 165cm since last January. If there are other midfats out there that would be better, I would not have any way to know so. I can at least add it is a better tool for my advanced balanced centered short turning style of skiing in bumps, all mountain packed powder terrain, and groomed, than my old Twisters though there are sure to be better burly all mountain skis for more uneven, less pleasant snow conditions, at higher forces.

 

[AlexisLD]

@Miller I don't have the shorter length that you need in our database at Sooth Ski. However, I can compare these skis in 158 cm length. Be careful though, not all skis compagnies scale down skis the same ways.

Here is our measurements:

If you look at the first graph, representing a side view of the ski, you will see that the Santa Ana will ski slightly shorter (it has a little bit more rocker) than both Astral. The Black Pearl has much less rocker than both of these skis. It will ski 5 ish cm longer than the other two models. Tails and camber shapes are pretty close to each other.

Second graph is a top view of these skis. They have similar sidecut and tail. However, the tip of the Black Pearl is larger and will keep engaging as you edge the ski more and more.

Third graph is the bending stiffness. This is not the deflection, but the stiffness at each position along the length of the ski. Note that the SA is stiffer in the tip and tail (tip is stiffer by 60%, which is quite a lot). This mean that it will be more stable at higher speed (more tip/tail pressure). The ski will feel more stable and engaged. It will also provide more pop at the end of a turn or a trampoline effect in moguls. All of these are desirable for good/expert skier who can manage that and have enough leg motion to release the pressure at will. The BP has a stiff tip too, but the tail is as soft as the Astral.

Fourth graph is the torsional stiffness (i.e., how much the tip/tail will twist in use). Again, the SA is stiffer, everywhere, but mostly in the tip and tail (tail is about 100% stiffer, and the center section is 50% stiffer). Torsional stiffness is what give you edge grip on ice and a better vibration response. It makes for a precise ski that is harder to release. Again, great for expert/precise skier, but not ideal for intermediate or park/mogul skiers. High torsional stiffness will make your ski catch-and-go in 3D snow and you need to be able to deal with it, a little bit like a ski that is too sharp. Low torsional stiffness will make for a playful and forgiving ski. Again, the BP is as stiff in the tip, but as soft as the Astral in the tail.

Interestingly, the Astral Ti and CA are one of the rare exemple of a Ti ski that is softer in both bending and torsional stiffness than its CA construction. The Ti is also lighter. Typically, it is the other way around and the .

You can look at the manufacturers' websites, but the BP and SA are skis that are recommended for advanced/expert skiers. The Astral is marketed toward intermediate skier. I think I would look for a wider ski closer to the Astral in stiffness. Larger helps to build confidence in 3D snow by floating on top. Longer helps also with float, but longer skis are often stiffer and are harder to turn due to their length (in moguls and trees, but also on piste).

You can try this website to figure out suitable length without telling us her weight! https://www.powder7.com/downhill-ski-size-chart/sizing-guide

And it shouldn't be hard to demo any of these skis. That is always the best option. Try to find a day with 3D snow.

Hope this helps!

 

[In2h2o]

Hmm. Wow. slightly (ok really) offended by this comment.

I feel like it should come down to the following criteria.
1. Graphics, color, appearance. She should be EXCITED when she looks at her new skis.

@Miller fwiw maybe she should "gasp" actually demo some skis and see what she likes .....
It's not about the top sheet
And there are other skis that may work for her besides the two mentioned.

 

[peterm]

My impression, from helping my daughter choose a ski, is that the BP 88 is a little easier than the Santa Ana 88. She liked the Astral 84 better than both, but it wasn't available so we bought the BPs. Mid 160s, so who knows if that translates to the shorter lengths.

 

[Delicious]

Hmm. Wow. slightly (ok really) offended by this comment.


@Miller fwiw maybe she should "gasp" actually demo some skis and see what she likes .....
It's not about the top sheet
And there are other skis that may work for her besides the two mentioned.

Point I was trying to make is, they are such similar skis that it should almost come down to color choice.

 

[In2h2o]

@Delicious thanks for the explanation.

 

[AmyPJ]

The Nordica might feel more familiar to her as she's on the Astral right now. IIRC tip shape is the same. The SA 88 is my daily ski. The Astral 84 might be an even better choice for her at her stats, although I don't think the 88 would feel unforgiving. It's a pretty easy ski with a shape that doesn't get caught up in crud. My only notes from skiing the new (2021) version of the Black Pearl, which was my daily ski for three seasons, was that it was a hoot on groomers, but not as stable in crud like my SA 88s. But my testing was hindered by being in brand new boots.

I also see that Nordica has a SA 84 coming out, and some outlets (like Ski Essentials) already have them in stock. I'm highly interested in getting on a pair to see how they feel compared to the 88. Are they just a renamed Astral 84? Not sure. Bonus with the Astral 84 is you can find them for a very attractive price.

In all truthfulness, much of the instability she's feeling could be related to the fact that she's on a pretty short ski, and going up in length on anything will smooth things out for her. Keep in mind the 2021 BP skis longer than the SA.

 

[Tom K.]

No knowledge on the SA, but my wife is your wife's size and skis the same length BP you're interested in and declares it to be her favorite ski ever.

Unless there is more than 6 inches of new, she chooses the BP (5-year old version).

And yes, she happens to like the way it looks.

 

[Philpug]

. Be careful though, not all skis compagnies scale down skis the same ways.

This is very true. One of the main problems when we get ton to 150-sh length skis is that many brands still use the adult binding plate in the ski. This is the plate that the binding is screwed into, many of these plates are designed to accomodate a 360mm boot.

Between these two skis, the BP and SA, the BP will have a longer running surface with less rise tip and tail. I woudl suggest hand flexing both skis...in these lengths to make sure they bend properly. I do like the suggestion of the Astral in these lengths too.

As quirky as they can me. a Look Pivot with it's uber short mount distance is an ideal application here. Avoid ether ski that might come system binding, it can make the ski heavier and not allow proper flex under the boot.

 

[Delicious]

And yes, she happens to like the way it looks.

You have to! Right? Who buys "the best ski in the world", despite the fact that they hate the top sheet? ...??? We, instead, convince ourselves that some other very similar ski is actually the better option because we love the way it looks.

 

[Philpug]

You have to! Right? Who buys "the best ski in the world", despite the fact that they hate the top sheet? ...??? We, instead, convince ourselves that some other very similar ski is actually the better option because we love the way it looks.

Graphics will rarely sell a ski, but they will stop a sale. Do they matter? Hell yes looks matter, but they matter less to women than guys, I stand by that statement after seeing some of the ugly mugs that are active on this site that are married

 

[tch]

^^^ Hey, I resemble that remark!

 

[Miller]

Thanks for the responses so far. My wife has made is clear that I am responsible for picking out the correct ski for her. Similar to what Phil said, the graphics on the ski can stop the sale, but I know she wouldn't be opposed to any of the graphics on the skis discussed.

I agree that demoing would be ideal, but it is not likely to happen. At least not around here. Very few shops around us have demos anymore and the ones that do usually don't have the sizes that she would be looking at. There seems to be very little available near Timberline WV which is where we have been doing our day trips this year. We are headed out to Breckenridge at the end of March. I wonder what the likelihood of having demos still available at that time.

The Astral 84 is a interesting idea and one that I initially considered. From looking at images of next years skis on Evo, the Santa Ana 84 looks to be a rebadged Astral (Tail looks like an Astral).

 

[AmyPJ]

The Astral 84 is a interesting idea and one that I initially considered. From looking at images of next years skis on Evo, the Santa Ana 84 looks to be a rebadged Astral (Tail looks like an Astral).

That's what I'm thinking, too. It could be just what she wants--a little longer, a little wider, but a very similar feel.

 

[Delicious]

Hell yes looks matter, but they matter less to women than guys, I stand by that statement after seeing some of the ugly mugs that are active on this site that are married

I did have a boss suggest to me, after meeting my wife at a holiday party for the first time, that I had "married up".

 

[tazdevl]

I snagged 19-20 Black Pearl 88 and 98 for my wife. She loves the 88s and has only had one day (Sat at Breck) where she needed the 98s. I’d put her squarely in the intermediate category after a 10+ year hiatus from skiing, though she used to be advanced. Iirc the BP line was tweaked for 20-21 which made it even more accessible.

 

[Tom K.]

Graphics will rarely sell a ski, but they will stop a sale.

Same with bikes. Why you see so many high-end black bikes.

 

[cc1]

I am 5'9" and ski the 172 Santa Ana 88, at top speeds I would want a longer length, but 99% of women won't ski it at the speeds I do. I feel this ski needs to be skied in a tall stance, and many times I find myself wanting to mount it behind center as the tip contact point seems too far back off the snow until the ski is engaged on edge in a carve. Overall I like this ski and use it a lot and would recommend. The tail is a bit stiff and does like to cause the ski to track out of the turn, but this is an advantage at those very high speeds, again overall I like.

Also have the Santa Ana 100 177cm, its heavy, that's it's major downfall and doesn't float in snow. I ski this ski a lot as well.

I would also add to your list the K2 Mindbender 88Ti in the women's, or consider a longer length junior ski.
Hope this was helpful.