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Blister recommends wide rockered skis for beginners

fatbob

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. Anyway, my view is that if people just did one of those for their first two years skiing they’d have much of the basic framework to be a great skier. Plus they‘re intrinsically fun. You could probably self teach from there and not go radically wrong. Why not recommend lessons Blinter?
Because Blister predominantly serve the (western) US market? And the instruction model there is so fragmented along with individuals vacation patterns that the ski week is the exception not the rule?

I see that as the single biggest barrier to beginner development - continuity of instruction with the same instructor (or the shouts of don't cheap out buy privates if you want something better).
 

Slim

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See my story above.
The friend I took to learn skiing started on the Blizzard Black Pearl which only has a little tail rocker. When she got off the lift she was all over the place and had a hard time getting out of the back seat. A fully cambered ski won't allow you to flail in the back seat naturally.

Mind you, someone can be on a fully cambered ski and be in the back seat, but its not natural like a slightly rockered ski.
Yes, I had read the story, but was wondering what exactly she was struggling with.
so if I understand correctly, the slight tail rocker, was allowing her to ski too much in the back seat? And a fully cambered ski helped her ‘feel’ that, so she could adjust?
That makes sense.

Thanks,
 

LiquidFeet

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....
When I first started skiing they used to have “ski weeks”, where you bought a 5 day lift ticket and for a very discounted additional sum you got 5 x 2 hour group lessons as well, usually with the same instructor. It was pretty inexpensive, a great way to meet new friends, and a great way to develop skills and Impart mountain etiquette. People don’t seem to do it anywhere near as much nowadays.....
Taos Ski Valley still does ski weeks. They never stopped.
 
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Tricia

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Yes, I had read the story, but was wondering what exactly she was struggling with.
so if I understand correctly, the slight tail rocker, was allowing her to ski too much in the back seat? And a fully cambered ski helped her ‘feel’ that, so she could adjust?
That makes sense.

Thanks,
Yes, and getting off the chair was particularly difficult for her.
She didn't seem to be able to pull her feet under her very easily.
After skiing a week or so on the fully cambered skis, she was able to move to the Black Pearl and get a better feel.
 

Tony Storaro

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instructors = cheating, its like getting 1-2 years of skiing on your own, into a few days.

It is not only this. Not only a good instructor fast-tracks you to higher level but they also help with avoiding bad habits. Something that one is guaranteed to catch if they "learn" on their own.
I mean, skiing is like playing a piano...or in my case drums-the way Animal from the Muppet show plays them-you can try and learn on your own but if your name doesn't start with Wolfgang Amadeus and ends with Mozart chances you gonna do it wrong are about 99.99%.
 

Tony Storaro

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Some people want to be technically proficient and play drums with precision and skill. Some people just want to bang on them and make a lot of noise while drinking beer in the garage with their friends. Not all that dissimilar to skiing.

Yeah, we established that already. For these people-105 on groomers. Perfection!
 

HardDaysNight

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Some people want to be technically proficient and play drums with precision and skill. Some people just want to bang on them and make a lot of noise while drinking beer in the garage with their friends. Not all that dissimilar to skiing.
I don’t want to work… I want to bang on me drum… Sorry, got carried away.
To continue the analogy (this thread is amusing), how long do drum bangers continue to bang without trying to attain any level of skill? Can they make the same progress with wide, fully-rockered drumsticks as with FIS spec carving drumsticks?
 

ted

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I think the point, though far from clear, of the photos was to show that the skis described in the article can still carve despite being wider, rocketed and tapered.

I also think they are using the term beginner a little to loosely. And go a little to far with the width. But generally I agree.

Most people just want to have fun skiing. A little extra width makes the ski easier to balance on and a little rocker aand taper keep the edges from catching.

By the time this skier is ready to buy skis, I wouldn’t label them a beginner. They are likely to have at least ten days on skis before being ready to buy. Then it is the job of the ski sales person to ask the right questions.

Retnal fleets are a whole different discussion, and I believe changing the typical rental ski from a dumbed down carver to an 80ish wasted ski with a little rocker and taper would certainly make the first few days easier.
 

ted

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Yes, and getting off the chair was particularly difficult for her.
She didn't seem to be able to pull her feet under her very easily.
After skiing a week or so on the fully cambered skis, she was able to move to the Black Pearl and get a better feel.
Were the bindings the same delta? Could that have been part of the issue. The BP doesn have much tail rocker.

For some people delta doesn’t matter, or some it makes a huge difference in balance.
 

James

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icy man made Italian groomers.
I like that one!

outside an idealised PSIA world
God help us with that world, whatever it is. We’d need a glossary for the glossary.
boy racers dicing in traffic usually grow out of it.
At what age? To be fair, the problem guys, often in their 40’s, 50’s, I doubt raced. Certainly not seriously.

What Beginner would ever spend $1500 US on skis?”
Well… there was a guy here who got Bombers because his ski mentor told him they would be the best for him. He was a beginning wedge turner.
He wasn’t amenable to people pointing out he could have a decent quiver for the cost of the Bombers.
As I recall, he even visited the factory in Italy at one point.
 

KingGrump

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Well… there was a guy here who got Bombers because his ski mentor told him they would be the best for him. He was a beginning wedge turner.
He wasn’t amenable to people pointing out he could have a decent quiver for the cost of the Bombers.
As I recall, he even visited the factory in Italy at one point.

Not to mention a 6'1" (185 cm) on a pair of 153 cm ski.
 

BLiP

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Yeah, we established that already. For these people-105 on groomers. Perfection!
See, I digress. I really think the key for this segment of skiers is snowblades. Great training for for-aft balance and you can get most beginners to perform an awesome spread eagle within half a day. They were never properly appreciated.
 

4ster

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Bike with training wheels - Wide ski with rocker
& I see the short narrow SL type ski as the "training wheels". Acquiring the skills that it will take to be a boss later on, all over the mountain, on any skis, in any conditions.

With that said, when fat skis were first showing up I would always recommend them when folks would come for a lesson on powder day. In fact for a few seasons, I had it set up with the rental shop that I could include some demo skis in the cost of a private lesson. I wouldn't call those folks beginners though, maybe beginning powder skiers.
 

4ster

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See, I digress. I really think the key for this segment of skiers is snowblades. Great training for for-aft balance and you can get most beginners to perform an awesome spread eagle within half a day. They were never properly appreciated.
There is some truth to this but snowblades weren't quite the right tool...
 

Tony Storaro

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See, I digress. I really think the key for this segment of skiers is snowblades. Great training for for-aft balance and you can get most beginners to perform an awesome spread eagle within half a day. They were never properly appreciated.

If said beginner has any experience inline skating they will be right at home.
 

James

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There is some truth to this but snowblades weren't quite the right tool...
We used the Elan Psx for a couple years. Generally, the 123cm I think. A short carving ski. Damn, they were fun for big carved turns at speed on firm., with poles! I had some big wrecks on them.

We only used the one size. However, it was supposed to be a three size progression. 113, 123, 133. After we got rid of them I acquired all 3 sizes. It was quite a challenge for the shop I used to use to grind the short ones. Since it was late March or April, they were amused.

The biggest issue was the terrible dry, hairy, bases. The mt shop refused to wax them. The problem was, in certain conditions they just wouldn’t move. On the little pitch steep enough to get moving, once they broke static friction they accelerated too fast.

Many of the instructors carried wax.

Very short skis place a premium on fore/aft balance. With rental boot issues of: way too big, unbuckled, buckled with the tongue outside the clog, two pairs of thick socks, jeans and sweat pants in the boot, boots on the wrong feet, etc., they’re probably not the best.
Even for a good skier, you can’t really relax and glide on something that short.

Snowblades were killed by their non releasable bindings. Many shops refused to rent them for the broken leg factor. Everyone had snowblades in the early 2000’s.
They were other good options with releasable bindings, but the fad died out and almost no one moved on to the others.
 

4ster

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We used the Elan Psx for a couple years. Generally, the 123cm I think. A short carving ski. Damn, they were fun for big carved turns at speed on firm., with poles! I had some big wrecks on them
We had the Rossignol stage series 110cm - 9m radius, 120cm - 10m radius, etc. Best time in history to teach beginners, or any level for that matter. And as I've said before, then fat rockers came along & all hope was lost :(
1664995597579.png
 

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