Boot Doc Foam Liners

[coskigirl]

Currently I have Dalbello Kyra 95 i.d. boots with the Intuition wrap liners that came with the boots. I've loved these boots for the most part but spent much of last season fighting them. I finally had the realization that the liners are done between being packed out and me losing weight. Last year I had the good fortune to ski with @Ron on his first day or two after getting new BD foam liners made and he has raved about them since.

This weekend I went into Ron's boot shop and worked with Bill a bit but they aren't really set up yet to be doing full boot fits. We pulled apart a boot, looked at the foot bed (I'll need to replace those too as the arch has fallen in them), and had me try on the BD foam liner in the boot. Bill seemed to be trying to sell me on going with another Intuition liner instead which I am open to as well since I like it previously but I found it a bit odd. Another person working (I didn't catch his name but he has curly salt & pepper hair, maybe Ron can tell me who that was) said that they really weren't selling it much anymore because of how well the BD liners are doing. We determined that the unisex version won't work for me as the top is too high for my calves so Bill was going to look into ordering a women's version for me.

However, now I'm wavering. One of the things Bill mentioned is warmth of the Intuition vs. the BD. Ron, do you have issues with the BD being colder than whatever you had before? And what did you have before?

Anyone else have experience with the BD liners, either from the user or fitter point of view?

 

[cantunamunch]

I take it these are new, i.e. not the same as the ca. 2012 Power Fit liners with the Boa closure? Those I am *not* a fan of.

 

[coskigirl]

No, these are Boot Doc not Black Diamond. Sorry for the confusion. https://www.boot-doc.com/en/products/foam-liners-43x38.html

 

[cantunamunch]

My misunderstanding, soz, no experience with those -> all ears now.

 

[coskigirl]

My misunderstanding, soz, no experience with those -> all ears now.

I edited the title to make it more clear.

 

[Philpug]

I have an upcoming review and article coming on the Boot Doc liners. Stay tuned!

@bud heishman is a dealer and distributor, I am sure he can chime in, he did mine.

 

[coskigirl]

I have an upcoming review and article coming on the Boot Doc liners. Stay tuned!

@bud heishman is a dealer and distributor, I am sure he can chime in, he did mine.

Excellent! I won't make it back to Steamboat until late October or November so I have some time to decide.

 

[GregMerz]

I bought a pair of the Boot Doc liners last season in the same shop you were in to replace the packed out stock liners in my Lange RX-130's. I think they're great. They're warm, as a foam liner they fill more if not all of the voids left in the shell fit and the lace-up feature gives the liner a better "purchase" on my leg. I have no trouble getting into the lace-up liner with the liner in the shell. The liner material is nicely "slippery" and makes entry and exit easy. Derek did mine and he has the salt & pepper thing going.

 

[Ron]

Currently I have Dalbello Kyra 95 i.d. boots with the Intuition wrap liners that came with the boots. I've loved these boots for the most part but spent much of last season fighting them. I finally had the realization that the liners are done between being packed out and me losing weight. Last year I had the good fortune to ski with @Ron on his first day or two after getting new BD foam liners made and he has raved about them since.

This weekend I went into Ron's boot shop and worked with Bill a bit but they aren't really set up yet to be doing full boot fits. We pulled apart a boot, looked at the foot bed (I'll need to replace those too as the arch has fallen in them), and had me try on the BD foam liner in the boot. Bill seemed to be trying to sell me on going with another Intuition liner instead which I am open to as well since I like it previously but I found it a bit odd. Another person working (I didn't catch his name but he has curly salt & pepper hair, maybe Ron can tell me who that was) said that they really weren't selling it much anymore because of how well the BD liners are doing. We determined that the unisex version won't work for me as the top is too high for my calves so Bill was going to look into ordering a women's version for me.

However, now I'm wavering. One of the things Bill mentioned is warmth of the Intuition vs. the BD. Ron, do you have issues with the BD being colder than whatever you had before? And what did you have before?

Anyone else have experience with the BD liners, either from the user or fitter point of view?

I absolutely love my BD liners and did a short review on them earlier. Maybe that's on Epic?? Yeah, Derrick is the most experienced fitter at Steamboat Ski and Bike and did my liners as well. What I found is that they feel a little softer than my Intuitions but they are far more responsive and have a smoother flex. I was on power Wraps and the Freestyle BD's have so much less volume. It took me a couple days to adjust to them but once I adjusted, I quickly discovered how great these liners are and how much more control I had. I dont think they are cold BTW.

 

[coskigirl]

@Ron I did look for a review from you but it didn't come up in a search.

 

[Ron]

Yep, I can't find it either.

 

[coskigirl]

I did find one on Epic about a demo you went to. Maybe that's what you're remembering.

 

[bud heishman]

The Boot Doc foam injected liners have proven to be pretty warm! You must remember that when a boot fits your every nook and cranny well, the blood flow should be optimized creating a warmer fit. I encourage all my customers to also use one of BD's compression socks as well because these also improve venus flow for warmer feet. BD also offers a stiffer foam in their "world cup" and also offer an optional foam tongue which can be used with any of their foam liners (a nice option).

 

[LiquidFeet]

I am going to need after-market liners this season. I have Reynaud's Syndrome so my feet get very very cold, even when other people are sweating. I need warmth.
How will these form liners compare to Zip Fits and Intuitions as far as warmth and the amount of volume they take up?
Since I may be in plug boots the stiffness of the liner may not be as important as the volume and warmth.

 

[bud heishman]

I am going to need after-market liners this season. I have Reynaud's Syndrome so my feet get very very cold, even when other people are sweating. I need warmth.
How will these form liners compare to Zip Fits and Intuitions as far as warmth and the amount of volume they take up?
Since I may be in plug boots the stiffness of the liner may not be as important as the volume and warmth.

Hi LQFeet! I have Reynaud's in a finger and it sucks, so I understand your dilemma. Here is what I tell people looking for performance and warmth. Get the performance you want and put a boot heater in it. Each type of liner has it's positives and negatives.

Intuition: very warm, remoldable (though they shrink slightly on remold) can be transferred to new shells because of this. Performance is pretty good, better than stock, but the negative is they only compress where there is pressure on them, they do not expand to fill voids or take up volume! Not a good choice for a poorly shell sized boot. 100% custom molded, again only compress where there is pressure. Sometimes create void around achilles area affecting heal hold

Zip Fits: Longevity and performance, superior heel hold. These liners will outlast everything else out there with many instructors I know going through 3 or 4 shells before having to replace liners. They will remold to new shells either naturally or expedited by reheating liners and shells. More material (cork/grease) can be added at anytime to take of volume if needed. The custom fitted area is around ankles and in tongue only. forefoot area is neoprene on outside and lambs wool inside!

BD foam: Ultimate in envelopment and taking up volume, comfortable, warm. Negative of foam liners is it is a one shot deal and will, most times, only work in the shell it was injected for (see Philpug) who had me foam him for one brand of boot but found he liked them even better stuck in a different brand's shells?

 

[LiquidFeet]

Thanks, Bud.
Do Zip Fits come with wide toe boxes? Or can the toe area, filled with the lambs wool, be stretched, or special ordered wide?

 

[Muleski]

I've made comments off and on about them on Epic. My bootfitter in Maine, sells every aftermarket liner made. He's very, very good. A 20+ year friend. He is a former French national team athlete. He has skied in BD's since he first picked them up about 4 years ago.

When our daughter retired as a NCAA/NorAm level racer, she wanted a more relaxed, and warmer boot that the tiny Lange ZA plugs that she had been wedged into for years. He put her in RS130's and the BD liner. Never used the stock liners. She called me from CO after her first run, and said "OMG, you NEED these!" She probably has 150-160 days in them. Zero issues.

I left my plug boots behind in the later fall of 2014. I wanted a boot that would work well with a lot of my wider skis. More centered stance. He recommended a RX130.....and I did not even try a stock liner. BD's. Love the boot. Comfortable, great fit, and yeah...home hill of Sugarloaf gets pretty cold!

Last year, my wife moved into the BD liner in I can't recall which Salomon boot. All good!

Now, when I first heard of BD, it was when I learned that they built Hirscher's liners. Little known by most is that he was in a Dobermann boot, until they got him in the Solomon shells. No....he does not ski in an Atomic boot. Only the decals and buckles. Our son is now in a BD liner, pretty close to MH's in his matte black Dobies.

He's been in EVERYTHING since he stopped racing and started coaching. I've been in various foamed boots going back to the 70's. Some bad, some worse. A few OK. In recent years, mostly ZipFits {as was my boot guy}.
ZipFits do last forever. My feet just love the BD's.

My whole family is hooked on these. They work for us. Nobody's aspiring for the World Cup. We can all ski anything, anywhere. And these work anywhere! Sons have an entirely different foam, BTW.

Will be interested to hear the technical facts, data and logic from PP and Bud.

You DO need to have these foamed by somebody who's familiar and experienced with the product, IMO.

Do it!!!!!

 

[SBrown]

Thanks, Bud.
Do Zip Fits come with wide toe boxes? Or can the toe area, filled with the lambs wool, be stretched, or special ordered wide?

ZipFit toes are neoprene lined with wool, so they are stretchy. Just get them long enough (my issue was going 2 sizes too small; since I went up a size, they have been great). Oh, and I had some material taken off the top of the foot, as well. There is some padding and stitching stuff that isn't necessary, and was causing me some trouble. But easy to modify.

 

[Muleski]

This is drifting, haha....away from BD's!!
My ZipFits are great. And in my closet for now.
Awaiting Coach PP's report!!!

 

[Philpug]

I had the article scheduled to come coem out early October, sounds like I need to move it up. Not this weeks newsletter (coming out this week), I will move it up the the following one..OK?