Hi Ivan, I'm Todd, the product manager for BootDoc. I'm sorry to hear that you're a) struggling with finding boots that really fit and work well for you and b) that the BD liner isn't helping, at least not now. To start, I have some questions and want to cover some basics.
- Any foot inside a ski boot can take almost no compression or pressure on the bones without pain resulting. Boot fitting, especially with the plug boots you have been using is about accommodating the bones where space is required while generally leaving areas of the shell or liner that interface with soft tissue (which typically can be compressed up to 25% before pain comes into play) un-modified.
- Understanding that your had your foam liner injected for your ZB shell, I'm curious as to whom did the fitting work for that boot and whether it was the same person who did the fitting work for your ZA and did they use the ZB as a template for modifying the ZA? While I disagree with Wendy's characterization of BD foam being rigid (even the WC pressure foam), there is no doubt that the liner doesn't potentially swap from boot to boot unless the shell is very similar in terms of last, last shape, modification locations, and modification size. Additionally, none of the BD foams react with acetone (that's how you know they're different than the rock hard factory foam liner foam) so that approach isn't going to help.
- The proper order of operations for fitting and foaming, especially for a plug boot, should be to make sure that all shell modifications are done first and then foam the liner (you'll want to have your footbed checked before the fitting starts). I read, very clearly, that you have a low volume foot. A plug boot is the natural choice for that scenario, but low volume doesn't mean that you don't need shell mods to accommodate some of the bones of your foot. Addressing those spots first is critical. From there, the liner can be foamed to take up volume, which sounds like it would be ideal for you.
Based on all of this, I'm guessing that the issue isn't the liner itself, but rather the interface between the liner and your new shell. That doesn't mean it will ever work in that shell though, so it's not a solution either. I'll PM you to see if we can figure out a good solution from the BootDoc side to help get you back on track.
Todd, first of all, thank you for taking time to write a long and detailed response. I really appreciate it. I will be happy to continue the conversation in PM; however, let me clarify one thing (for you as well as for everyone else) because it appears that there is some misunderstanding.
I had my liners foamed for the ZB. Then I skied in the ZB for about a month. The first time I skied in them, I was racing, probably my adrenaline was high and I was able to go to the lodge during the break between two races, so I though the liners are OK. However, the more I skied (in the ZB), the more I realized that the discomfort/pressure/pain is almost unbearable (and I have pretty high pain tolerance). I was doing some masters training, and I could barely complete two-hour training sessions because of the discomfort that I got.
One of the main reasons why I got the ZA was that I was hoping that maybe a softer shell would work better and relieve some of the discomfort. It was
after I had severe issues with the BD liner in the ZB, not before. If the BD liner had worked in the ZB, I would just have stuck to the ZB. As far as modifications go, I only had the ZB punched in one place; I had a pad there during the foaming process. I didn't have the ZA punched; however, I don't have any pain in that area at all. I just have uniform pressure/pain around the entire foot area. As I said before, the sides of the shell barely overlap when I put the foot in the liner in, both in the ZA and in the ZB.
I totally hear you that all shell modifications need to be done first. Maybe the fact that I need no such modifications means that I need to downsize even more; however, three different fitters (Miguel at Mud, Sweat n' Gears, Dieter at Alpina, Scott at Guenther's) checked my sizing and told me that unless I plan to race full time and want to have a lot of grinding done, the current size is correct (I downsized when I bought the ZB).
Dieter, who foamed the liners, is a super nice guy. However, whatever the reason, it seems that I had two misses now. First time, BD sent the wrong foam, it didn't expand properly, and the liners had wrinkles. Second time, the liners ended up being huge (by the way, in the cuff area, around the top buckle and the strap, the stock liners hug my foot better than the BD; I didn't get the foam tongue because Dieter didn't suggest it). I respect Dieter and would be happy to try what he proposes, but I'm just a bit skeptical that acetone and a mallet would work. Again, nothing personal agains him, he is super nice.
Thanks again, and I'll PM you.
