Boot Doc Foam Liners

[johnnyvw]

Thanks EricG. I've been using intuition wraps the past 12 years, they have worked great but they are showing signs of their age. I'm looking at all options to get a really good fit that will probably be my last set of boots.

 

[KevinF]

Any recommendations for a place with experience doing these, PA/NJ up into New England?

I have two sets of BootDoc foam liners. One was from Paul Richelson's "feet first" shop in New Hampshire. Those are the freeride "blue and orange" version. The others (that I use more often) are from PJ at Race Stock Sports are the Worldcup version.

The Worldcup version is a bit stiffer, but it's not night-and-day between the two. Both versions work just fine.

Paul at Feet First is a little more scientific about it; i.e., checking your foot and the boot to make sure they're a good fit, etc. I got my boots from PJ, so he knew how he had fit them in the first place, etc.

 

[KingGrump]

Any recommendations for a place with experience doing these, PA/NJ up into New England?

Gary Longley - Startingate, Bondville, VT (Stratton)

 

[James]

I'm looking at all options to get a really good fit that will probably be my last set of boots.

You never make a last run. Just another one. Eventually you run out of time. Same with boots and skis.

Farthest South I know is Suburban in CT

Ski Boots : Boot Liners - Suburban Sports

Next going North after Bondville in VT would be Boot Pro in Ludlow.

South would be Nick Blaylock at Mt Snow, fon’t know if they have Boot Doc.

 

[johnnyvw]

Well, considering my current boots are now 19 years old, if the next pair last that long I'll be almost 85 years old...at that point I'll be happy if I'm still breathing! LOL.

Thanks for everyone that responded. Looks like I"ll be making a trip north sometime this winter.

 

[KingGrump]

Farthest South I know is Suburban in CT
Ski Boots : Boot Liners - Suburban Sports

A few Wawa instructors I know, showed up at Startingate with their boot. Even though they bought their boots there on a pro deal. Just saying.

 

[Wendy]

Any recommendations for a place with experience doing these, PA/NJ up into New England?

Dieter Kirschner at Alpina Ski Shop in White Haven, PA is an experienced Boot Doc dealer.

A hop, skip, and jump for you. Give him a call!

 

[James]

A few Wawa instructors I know, showed up at Startingate with their boot. Even though they bought their boots there on a pro deal. Just saying.

Wouldn't surprise me.
Is Gary still working? There was another guy there some time ago, 10 yrs?, I avoided.

On another note, there's definitely a bit of a crapshoot with foam. Sometimes it just doesn't expand properly.
I had a pair from Boot Doctors years ago that didn't work well. Had wrinkles for one thing. And they spent lots of time on the setup.

 

[KingGrump]

Wouldn't surprise me.
Is Gary still working? There was another guy there some time ago, 10 yrs?, I avoided.

If you are talking about Gary Longley at Startingate. Yes, he is still there.
Never been to Suburban so the Wawa instructors were just a warning indicator from afar.

 

[Funkendrenchman]

Is the top of the toe box (inside) relatively smooth in Boot Docs? I tried a Surefoot recently and the connection of the tongue is uncomfortable on top of my toes/foot.

 

[Ivan]

Time to revitalize this old thread.

As I wrote elsewhere, following the recommendation by @Wendy, I had my BootDoc liners done by Dieter at Alpina Ski Shop last Friday. Really enjoyed the process, but, as I got home, I noticed that there is a big wrinkle on the outside of the right liner (right in the middle of the "World Cup" logo). Looks exactly like the problem that @James mentioned above.

I emailed the ski shop today in the morning (they are 100 miles away from me, so couldn't just stop by), they immediately replied that they would order a new pair of liners for me and redo the foaming process. They also sent a follow-up email a bit later saying that a BootDoc rep told them on the phone that foam might have been bad and might not have expanded properly.

 

[Wendy]

Time to revitalize this old thread.

As I wrote elsewhere, following the recommendation by @Wendy, I had my BootDoc liners done by Dieter at Alpina Ski Shop last Friday. Really enjoyed the process, but, as I got home, I noticed that there is a big wrinkle on the outside of the right liner (right in the middle of the "World Cup" logo). Looks exactly like the problem that @James mentioned above.

I emailed the ski shop today in the morning (they are 100 miles away from me, so couldn't just stop by), they immediately replied that they would order a new pair of liners for me and redo the foaming process. They also sent a follow-up email a bit later saying that a BootDoc rep told them on the phone that foam might have been bad and might not have expanded properly.

View attachment 156628 View attachment 156629

Glad they will make things right for you!

 

[Ivan]

Glad they will make things right for you!

They seem to be really nice people! Thank you for your recommendation: I saw it here a while ago, before I was looking for foam liners, and then remembered it when it was actually time to get them. There are some BootDoc dealers closer to where I live, and while they may be perfectly good shops, I decided to go with the trusted one.

 

[Wendy]

They seem to be really nice people! Thank you for your recommendation: I saw it here a while ago, before I was looking for foam liners, and then remembered it when it was actually time to get them. There are some BootDoc dealers closer to where I live, and while they may be perfectly good shops, I decided to go with the trusted one.

They are. Their shop is family run; it is their business so they are very conscious of good customer service. Tell them Wendy said hello next time you go in! I don’t get up there as much anymore.

 

[James]

Looks exactly like the problem that @James mentioned above.

Mine looked different, but basically same issue with my Nordica foam liners over 20 yrs ago. You can do everything right but it doesn’t work.

However, with mine and yours, it does beg the question, Why didn’t they look at them before sending them out the door? It’s not like they changed.

 

[Muleski]

My family has had really good luck with Boot Doc liners. My wife and I had them foamed after out 30ish daughter recommended them as game changers. She's ex NCAA. Our son, a full time year round coach had his first pair foamed in Austria. Our daughter is on her second pair. First pair was great for 500+ days. Son still has his first, but he does not "work" in them, and uses them only in his free ski boots...which most of us would consider to be race boots. Dobies. He works in Zip Fits, and just got a new pair. He thinks the old ones were well over 1000 days.

We've had no issues with any of the liners. None. But.....we think that the four guys who did the work had a lot of hands on with B-D, and both mixed the foam and let them cure, "just right." Back in the time frame that @James mentions, both my son and I had the special treatment of foam liners, by Nordica in early Dobies. They were not so special. We both went right back to the factory race room lace liners.

I also had a friend beg me to let him get me into a Strolz boot 20+ years ago. The liner was a piece of art. Beautiful leather. The foaming process involved also heating the liner. This guy was very good. Unfortunately the "race boot shell" was just ginormous. Huge volume, filled up with the foam to fit. I hated the geometry. I pretty much lied to my friend for a season, as I skied the boot for all of parts of THREE days. The MSRP was something like $1300. I sold them on here for $100.

I think Boot Doc has a very good product. It balancing comfort and performance it might lean a touch toward comfort. My wife and daughter have them both in Lange RS'. My son has the WC liner, as do I, and his {foamed Austria by some serious race boot techs} has a much tighter fit and firmer foam. We're both happy.

But yeah, that crease looks all wrong. Glad that they'll refoam another pair for you. I'd insist on re-foamig and refitting a pair. Not just one boot, so that you know that the foam mix will be the same. There seems to be some variability in it, based on what I've seen. But clearly two thumbs up from us!

 

[Wendy]

Mine looked different, but basically same issue with my Nordica foam liners over 20 yrs ago. You can do everything right but it doesn’t work.

However, with mine and yours, it does beg the question, Why didn’t they look at them before sending them out the door? It’s not like they changed.

I think, since they are foamed within the shell (obviously), then many bootfitters see no reason to remove the liners from the shell unless they are installing boot heaters or something. Just a guess.

Dieter at Alpina is pretty particular about the liners after foaming. After removing mine to install boot heaters, there was some extra foam on one and he spent quite a bit of time removing it, even though I really didn’t care as it didn’t affect anything.

 

[Ivan]

I think, since they are foamed within the shell (obviously), then many bootfitters see no reason to remove the liners from the shell unless they are installing boot heaters or something. Just a guess.

Dieter at Alpina is pretty particular about the liners after foaming. After removing mine to install boot heaters, there was some extra foam on one and he spent quite a bit of time removing it, even though I really didn’t care as it didn’t affect anything.

Well, we actually had to remove the liners from the boots, because I was unable to put the liners on when they were in the boots. I had to put the liners on first, lace them, then put on the shell (Lange World Cup boots aren't easy to step in/out). However, there was some runaway foam that got onto the strap of the right boot, and he went to clean it right after I took off the liners and boots. Anyway, given that they were willing to fix the problem as soon as I got in touch with them, I cannot really fault them too much. I should also note that I could also have inspected the liners more closely right away.

But yeah, that crease looks all wrong. Glad that they'll refoam another pair for you. I'd insist on re-foamig and refitting a pair. Not just one boot, so that you know that the foam mix will be the same. There seems to be some variability in it, based on what I've seen. But clearly two thumbs up from us!

Actually, based on another follow up from them (the shop), it appears that a BootDoc rep told them that BootDoc might have sent them wrong foam; this is probably why it failed to expand properly. I also skied (well, actually, raced) in these liners on Saturday and was a bit surprised that they didn't feel as tight as I expected. Anyway, I'll have to wait a bit, but I'm sure we'll sort it out in the end.

 

[Wendy]

Well, we actually had to remove the liners from the boots, because I was unable to put the liners on when they were in the boots. I had to put the liners on first, lace them, then put on the shell (Lange World Cup boots aren't easy to step in/out). However, there was some runaway foam that got onto the strap of the right boot, and he went to clean it right after I took off the liners and boots. Anyway, given that they were willing to fix the problem as soon as I got in touch with them, I cannot really fault them too much. I should also note that I could also have inspected the liners more closely right away.


Actually, based on another follow up from them (the shop), it appears that a BootDoc rep told them that BootDoc might have sent them wrong foam; this is probably why it failed to expand properly. I also skied (well, actually, raced) in these liners on Saturday and was a bit surprised that they didn't feel as tight as I expected. Anyway, I'll have to wait a bit, but I'm sure we'll sort it out in the end.

The liners should feel tight. So yeah, something wasn’t quite right.
They will fix it for you. Dieter’s wife, Kim, gets very upset if a customer feels as if they weren’t serviced well.

 

[Ivan]

Time for an update: I got my new BootDoc World Cup liners from Dieter a couple of weeks ago. Raced in them once, trained a couple of times, freeskied a couple of times as well. Boy, they are tight. Really tight. Actually, uncomfortably tight for the first 15-20 minutes after I put the boots on. After that, all discomfort disappears, and I simply have great fitting boots with absolutely no free room. I would imagine the initial discomfort would disappear as I break them in and get used to them, but overall I really like how they feel (and feel like I ski better in them than before).