When you guys shop for backcountry boots, how much emphasis do you put on the weight? I know this would depend on type of use, long multi day tours vs roadside day laps. But does 100grams per boot make a huge difference?
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Boot weight?
- Thread starter clewis
- Start date
I don't think 100g is that significant....
...not if you are spending the weight to get a boot that has proper fit and/or more useful features.
The only times 100g would make a big difference is if you were racing and uphill speed is very important, or if the lighter boot is already very heavy and sort of at your max.
I have a one boot quiver for BC skiing, but if I was to add a lighter one, there is no way I would choose one with only 100g of savings. For the most part these items are in the same weight class.
FWIW, I notice boot weight more on bootpacks than skinning because you have to lift your foot so much higher when bootpacking....as opposed to pivoting on pins.
...not if you are spending the weight to get a boot that has proper fit and/or more useful features.
The only times 100g would make a big difference is if you were racing and uphill speed is very important, or if the lighter boot is already very heavy and sort of at your max.
I have a one boot quiver for BC skiing, but if I was to add a lighter one, there is no way I would choose one with only 100g of savings. For the most part these items are in the same weight class.
FWIW, I notice boot weight more on bootpacks than skinning because you have to lift your foot so much higher when bootpacking....as opposed to pivoting on pins.
Thread Starter
TS
Good point about the boot packing vs skinning.
Looks like i'm in some of the same terrain as you. Located in Canmore
Looks like i'm in some of the same terrain as you. Located in Canmore
100g weight savings is great, but I would only do it if everything else was good.
A great example is the Hawx XTD boot series. The wider ones are about 100g heavier than the narrower ones, but if you have a wide foot, you’d be foolish to get the narrower boot just to save weight.
Atomic made the wider boots heavier, not just because there is a bit more surface area, but more importantly, to keep the same stiffness in the bigger shape.
A great example is the Hawx XTD boot series. The wider ones are about 100g heavier than the narrower ones, but if you have a wide foot, you’d be foolish to get the narrower boot just to save weight.
Atomic made the wider boots heavier, not just because there is a bit more surface area, but more importantly, to keep the same stiffness in the bigger shape.
But, if you are comparing boots from different “weight classes” that fit equally well, you are most often trying to decide between uphill vs downhill performance.
Uphill performsnce is not just about weight, but also range of motion, friction/resistance to motion, length of sole and support/fit in walk mode and ease of transitions. Most “lighter weight class” boots perform better than heavier ones in those metrics, not just in weight.
And because of that, a lighter shell, with a thicker liner, might be the same weight as the reverse, but be warmer and more comfortable, skin and hike better, but ski down worse.
Uphill performsnce is not just about weight, but also range of motion, friction/resistance to motion, length of sole and support/fit in walk mode and ease of transitions. Most “lighter weight class” boots perform better than heavier ones in those metrics, not just in weight.
And because of that, a lighter shell, with a thicker liner, might be the same weight as the reverse, but be warmer and more comfortable, skin and hike better, but ski down worse.
Usually you will give up on downhill skiing performance when going for lighter weight boots. I try to view the skis-boots-bindings as a system so if your priority is long days going uphill then I would pair lightweight boots with light AT bindings and lightweight skis. AT Setups can be divided into several weight ranges: SkiMo Ultralight, Lightweight, Midweight (my choice) and Heavy (think more inbounds oriented setup).
For sure. I am stuck in the city 5 days a week, but I ski Kicking Horse, Fernie, and Louise on the weekends. I really like Rogers Pass for backountry, and it's pretty easy access if staying overnight in Golden.
Have you checked out Ski Uphill in Canmore? It's a good shop, but as the name suggests, there is a bit of a priority on the uphill side of things. Lots of lightweight setups, fewer burly options, but there are a few. Friends say that Joel does a nice job fitting boots.
Thread Starter
TS
Ski uphill is a good outfit for sure. They do lean to the light side but do have a selection of moderate weight stuff.
Personally I like a lighter boot to go downhill too. I noticed a difference wehn I went from the heavier Head Raptor to the lighter Salomon S/Max (then back to the Lange) and now in The K2 Recon Pro. Because of the lack of rotational momentum you wouldn't think a boot would make that much of a difference but I definitely do.
It seems to me with new(ish) materials like Grilamid boots be both lighter and stiffer, which seems like a good idea to me. But I’m more of a finesse skier.
For AT boots, as Ken_R posted, there are weight ranges. They directly correlate to how well they ski up versus down. Within a class, the weights will vary some but not a lot (say +/- 100 g). I think most AT skiers pick their boot class by performance, then look at fit, and then weight. If you are going to use the boot inbounds too, then binding compatibility is important. If you are talking mostly downhill boots (alpine) then weight can vary from 2500 g down to 1600 g which is quite a range and significant. This is what Phil was mentioning.
Thread Starter
TS
Thinking about some new touring boots this season. Wife just got some new ones now I want new ones, haha. Plus mine are about 10 years old and aren't the best fit.
Short list after trying a few on are the Dynafit Hoji Free and the Tecnica zero g pro tour. Tried some scarpa's and La sportiva on but they don't fit well.
Mostly just curious on others opinion about weight.
Thanks
I can't compare the two, but I really wanted the Zero G Pro to work for me. Unfortunately, they were pretty painful out of the box. I ended up with the Hoji Free. The walk well...better than my previous boots, the scarpa maestralle. Great lateral support. Stiff enough for forward flex, but I still use a regular alpine boot for inbounds.
My partner, Liz is on the Zero G Scout W and she loves them. They are both good choices!
@clewis, sure.
i can not give you any experience personally. Every time I have used heavier or lighter gear, the difference has been more than 100g/foot, and usually other things have changed as well, so not representative. Maybe I’ll do some testing this late fall, skinning up our local hill (if they open). Do a few laps with and without a small weight on my foot.
As far as the two boots you mentioned, Blister weighed them at 1650g for the Hoji Free, and 1320g for the Zero G Tour. (1320g and 1100g for shells only).
So quite a bit bit more than 100g/boot.
That said, you are still choosing first based on fit I assume?
If both fit equally well, Blister said the Hoji Free 130 skied a bit stiffer and more powerful, but that said, I haven’t heard anyone complain about the skiing performance of the Zero G.
Still, if you are tall and heavy, that might be a reason to go for the Hoji Free?
i can not give you any experience personally. Every time I have used heavier or lighter gear, the difference has been more than 100g/foot, and usually other things have changed as well, so not representative. Maybe I’ll do some testing this late fall, skinning up our local hill (if they open). Do a few laps with and without a small weight on my foot.
As far as the two boots you mentioned, Blister weighed them at 1650g for the Hoji Free, and 1320g for the Zero G Tour. (1320g and 1100g for shells only).
So quite a bit bit more than 100g/boot.
That said, you are still choosing first based on fit I assume?
If both fit equally well, Blister said the Hoji Free 130 skied a bit stiffer and more powerful, but that said, I haven’t heard anyone complain about the skiing performance of the Zero G.
Still, if you are tall and heavy, that might be a reason to go for the Hoji Free?
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Can we put some real numbers on this boot weight concern? What do your touring boots actually weigh (not the published numbers, but your setup weighed on a scale)? What would you consider the maximum weight you would be willing to have in a boot for the typical touring you do?
This is all new to me, so TIA.
This is all new to me, so TIA.
My Salomon Explore 26.5 boots weigh (actual) 1480g. I weigh ~150 lbs nekkid, skiing on 178 Blizzard Zero G 108s w/G3 Ions and BD Glidelite mix skins, and don’t feel the need (or desire) for stiffer or heavier boots. I feel like 1500/1600 g is the top end. I’m more of a finesse skier.Can we put some real numbers on this boot weight concern? What do your touring boots actually weigh (not the published numbers, but your setup weighed on a scale)? What would you consider the maximum weight you would be willing to have in a boot for the typical touring you do?
This is all new to me, so TIA.
I guess it depends on the type or length of touring you do. I tend to marvel at some of the people here that insist they need their (near) plug boots to ski bc, but I probably go for longer tours...and I come from a tele background. It might be different if I did mostly side country stuff. I’ve had heavier AT boots - Scarpa Spirit 4, Scarpa Mobe, Dalbello something-or-other - and I don’t miss them.
I would focus more on the fit and aligning the boots design/purpose to your needs.
Some AT boots focus more on great downhill performance than the uphill but can manage the uphill and some are designed to give the best performance on the uphill and can manage the downhill. There are boots between those 2 extremes.
I own a pair of Hoji Frees and love them but they do sacrifice a bit of weight for their downhill prowess which give very little if anything to downhill only boots. They are really good on the uphill mainly due to their awesome walk mechanism. The liner is again a bit of a compromise but again it is optimized for downhill performance. If I toured a LOT I would go with a much lighter boot. I wanted to but at 190 lbs + 20 lb of gear I crushed lighter / softer boots. There are so many good options nowadays though.
I have the same boot and i came from the Technica zero g pro which is 250 g lighter, but has much worse range of motion.
It doesn't seem to slow me down on the uphill, but the down is considerably better.
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