• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

bremmick

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Jan 30, 2017
Posts
155
Location
Utah
Time to up my boot game. I’ve outpaced my Salomon QST Pro 120’s. Want to move to a stiffer boot and tighter fit. Scanned out at a 29.5 for performance fit. Shell fit is about a finger and a half, slightly less on both brands.

Trying to determine if I get a 50/50 boot or a traditional. I like the hike mode for comfort. Possibly want to start touring next season. But am I making major trade offs in performance with it?

Both brands fit me superb out of the box. Lange XT Free 130, Lange RX 130 LV, Tecnica Cochise DYN 130, and Tecnica Mach1 LV 130. Thoughts on these boots? Compelling reasons one way or the other? How much am I sacrificing, if any, going to the 50/50 boot?
 

Winks

AKA "Gary".
Industry Insider
SkiTalk Tester
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Posts
461
Location
CA
Well my first response is always going to be to sit down with a professional bootfitter to help determine what exactly it is you are looking for and looking to do. Out of the box fits are okay but its better to get your performance needs met by having it customized. Also when making them possible touring boots things start to rub after a few hours hike. I have custom touring boots and still have occasional issues after a few hours out.

Walk features are great for bars/parking lots but unless you truly boot pack a lot they don't help that much. A lot of people also forget to click their boots back into ski mode before taking off, which can open the door to a lot of other issues.

Lastly with regards to performance, their is always trade-offs when doing a hybrid boot, either it still weighs a good amount and skis great, or its a bit lighter and may not ski the way you are hoping for. It all depends what you are looking for. A lot of people want the "Unicorn" boot and it doesn't really exist.
 
Thread Starter
TS
bremmick

bremmick

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Jan 30, 2017
Posts
155
Location
Utah
I worked with a solid boot fitter at Sports Den in Salt Lake City. Went through everything I was looking for. Scanned my foot to help identify best early fit based on length, forefoot, instep, and ankle sizing. Narrowed to Tecnica, Lange and Fischer. Quickly hated the pinching in the Fischer.

I’m fine with a much more downhill oriented boot if I go 50/50. I want it to ski great. Tours will be short. Not all day events.
 

LiquidFeet

instructor
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,697
Location
New England
Time to up my boot game. I’ve outpaced my Salomon QST Pro 120’s. Want to move to a stiffer boot and tighter fit. Scanned out at a 29.5 for performance fit. Shell fit is about a finger and a half, slightly less on both brands.....

Performance fit is definitely less than a finger and a half.

Does anyone know if there is something permanently logged on this forum, not in a lengthy discussion thread but in some other form, that explains how to do a shell fit properly for a comfort fit, recreational fit, and performance fit? If there is something like that here, I hope it addresses what a performance fit feels like, how it holds up over time compared to other fits, and how it impacts one's skiing.
 

Winks

AKA "Gary".
Industry Insider
SkiTalk Tester
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Posts
461
Location
CA
I worked with a solid boot fitter at Sports Den in Salt Lake City. Went through everything I was looking for. Scanned my foot to help identify best early fit based on length, forefoot, instep, and ankle sizing. Narrowed to Tecnica, Lange and Fischer. Quickly hated the pinching in the Fischer.

I’m fine with a much more downhill oriented boot if I go 50/50. I want it to ski great. Tours will be short. Not all day events.

Go with what fits best, with the boots you named in the first post, two of them had touring capabilities and two of them were downhill boots. That being said each one of them fits radically different. The Cochise being the largest of the fits.

Also, what Fischer was it?
 

Wilhelmson

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
May 2, 2017
Posts
4,328
Well, my fingers aren't even big and they're twice as thick as my wife's. Let's give the guy credit that he's looked into the proper shell fit procedure - if he's like most of us he's probably researched this ad nausea and can now convert his fingers to mm in his head!

I've been in the Lange XT Free LV for about 10 days so I'm still getting the feel for them. They fit well now after a quite painful break in.

To summarize the downhill performance, I'd reiterate most of the online reviews which describe them as a capable downhill boot.

The 130 is definitely stiffer than my previous very old conventional 120 boots. They do feel like they start off a little soft and the 130 kicks in as more force is applied (the boots fit snugly around my calves with the spoiler).

I also noticed that the lower heel seems to lean me farther back than I"m used to. Maybe not in a bad way, but different. Now that the boots don't cause pain I plan on getting fitted to address the alignment, etc.
 

Analisa

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Dec 29, 2017
Posts
982
You probably should have a preference based on fit/goals.

But if you truly see them all as equal, there's at least some notable differences between the Tecnicas. The Cochise is designed to be a freeride boot, so the stance is more centered between the ramp angle and forward lean. And the plastic's different to provide a more progressive fit - it feels softer at first and ramps up the further you flex the boot. That allows the boot absorb and smooth out some of the movement in chundery snow and is more forgiving on landings. The Mach1 sets you up with a more forward stance (although, I should note that there are ways a bootfitter can adjust these angles with the right wedges/spoilers/binding shims) and the flex doesn't ramp up as dramatically. The flex pattern provides a little more torsional rigidity for being laid over on a groomer (hence why they're considered Tecnica's "piste" boot).

The Cochise also has a little more room in the toe box (I've heard it described as the Mach1 LV heel cup with an MV toe box) with the idea touring, you want some extra room for your toes to be comfortable and get more circulation to stay warmer. While some skiers size up in their touring boots, Tecnica cleverly lets you keep everything you like about your Mach1 LV shell fit and tacks in that extra bit of toe room skiers are looking for.

I personally don't know many people who tour in the Cochise or XT Frees, and ones that do either haven't gotten new boots in 5+ years or settled for a hybrid boot for budget reasons. Both have a very limited amount of range of motion in the ankle, which makes for more short strides - ultimately more tiring than long, efficient ones. The Cochise doesn't even come with WTR/GW soles. If you're skiing a Cochise inbounds, it's a great way to ease into touring and slowly build a setup. But if you're really set on a heavier hybrid boot, I think there are better options - like the Hawx XTD, Dalbello Lupos, FT Ascendant - all walk ergonomically and fit in most downhill bindings.
 

ski otter 2

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Posts
2,920
Location
Front Range, Colorado
Performance fit is definitely less than a finger and a half.

(I'm not a bootfitter, and can't know your own particular situation and experience, so if I'm too obvious or off for the OP, apologies.)

Sort of obvious, but a performance fit would indeed usually be more like 1/2 to 1 finger (unless, for example, one's foot sizes are very different?). In addition, probably there would be some adjusting, grinding and/or punching for most people: in most cases, you are sizing down a size or so, in stiffer, less yielding material.

In my own case, a pair of very experienced bootfitters steered my very much in a wrong/deadend direction (into some very pricey mistakes), for me and my feet in particular, by saying to go with what initially fits best. There are other considerations, and lots of routine adjustments that can be made by top bootfitters.
Usually, for performance fit, one needs to size down a size or more and then make adjustments, or otherwise the fit on the snow may be too loose. (The right bootfitter can guide you here, if you don't have the experience yourself.)

In addition, even if it does fit perfectly at first, if the boot itself is too soft (in either forward or torsional flexing) for your type of skiing, or part of it, then it will be money wasted, better skiing lost.

Similarly - again as you may know and have made allowances for, at least the two Lange boots you mentioned have some performance limits, and are usually/often not really performance fit boots: I find them softer flexing and softer torsionally than is optimal for about half my skiing (slalom-like turning, deeper powder, rougher soft snow conditions, ice and groomer charging, race type carving). As a result, the RXes, in particular, are often stiffened up with additions and mods, such as replaced liners and changed out (Booster) straps, with straps placed under the cuff (which makes the flex stiffer and more snug-fitting/flexing). There's a whole bunch of bootfitters who routinely do these mods to the RX 120 and 130, and ski on those mods themselves. (Please, someone, correct me if I'm out of touch with changes in just the past year or so.)

On the other hand, for "in between" type skiing, more relaxed; casual longer or relaxed gs and in between turns; casual all mountain and resort powder cruising at medium to modest speeds; and/or a pivoting and slarving style in general, including a pivoting style in bumps, then the RX 130 and XT 130 can work wonders.
 

Brian Finch

Privateer Skier @ www.SkiWithaGrimRipper.com
Industry Insider
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
3,358
Location
Vermont
Go 50/50 with GripWalk & Walk Mode: you can train for 9 months of the year, but at the end of the day, ya only have so many runs in your legs. Do not waste em walking to the bathroom & around the lodge in traditional boots.

Time will tell, but I think that 50/50 boots will save you from injuries long term from lesser fatigue.
 
Thread Starter
TS
bremmick

bremmick

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Jan 30, 2017
Posts
155
Location
Utah
To clarify on she’ll fit. The fit was about 15mm for the shell. The Lange RX 130 LV fit nice over the whole foot. Was not able to try on the XT Free as they did not have my size in stock.
I’m a street shoe 13, sometimes 12.5. Both Lange and Tecnica were size to 29.5.

I’m a fairly strong skier but a long ways to go for sure. I’ve skied about 100 days in my life. All in the past three years. Coming off of a snowboard. I like and ski mostly Utah and like to ski everything. Just got done with a day at Solitude. Skied everything today groomers, hard bumps, trees, the Headwall, Cathederal Cirque, and Navarone, as well a few other laps in Honeycomb Canyon. Still a long ways to go in my skiing and looking for a boot to help me with that.

Why the Atomic Hawk over the others I’ve mentioned?
 

Swede

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Jan 29, 2016
Posts
2,390
Location
Sweden
My estimation after a few boot specialist consultations;
Naked foot in shell (no linear)
Big toe touching front—touching—not pushed against.
Distance from heel to shell.
<5 mm race fit
5-10 mm performance
10-20 mm recreational-comfort
>20 mm too big
YMMV.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Ken_R

Living the Dream
Skier
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Posts
5,775
Location
Denver, CO
Time to up my boot game. I’ve outpaced my Salomon QST Pro 120’s. Want to move to a stiffer boot and tighter fit. Scanned out at a 29.5 for performance fit. Shell fit is about a finger and a half, slightly less on both brands.

Trying to determine if I get a 50/50 boot or a traditional. I like the hike mode for comfort. Possibly want to start touring next season. But am I making major trade offs in performance with it?

Both brands fit me superb out of the box. Lange XT Free 130, Lange RX 130 LV, Tecnica Cochise DYN 130, and Tecnica Mach1 LV 130. Thoughts on these boots? Compelling reasons one way or the other? How much am I sacrificing, if any, going to the 50/50 boot?

My new Hoji FREE ski AMAZINGLY well. The flex is very firm and progressive. Unusual in a lightish touring boot. The HAWX XTD is the other "no compromise" light touring boot and it would be my choice to use on alpine bindings as well.
 

S.H.

USSA Coach
Skier
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
1,821
Location
New England --> CO
My estimation after a few boot specialist consultations;
Naked foot in shell (no linear)
Big toe touching front—touching—not pushed against.
Distance from heel to shell.
>5 mm race fit
5-10 mm performance
10-20 mm recreational-comfort
<20 mm too big
YMMV.


I think you've got your "greater than" and "less than" symbols reversed there....
 

pliny the elder

Industry Insider
Skier
Joined
May 28, 2019
Posts
159
Location
Somewhere good
If all you ever ski in is a side country boot, you will think they ski just fine. If you only ski in a high end touring boot, you will think they ski just fine.
If you regularly ski in a race plug and ski in the top of the line retail version that boot you will notice a drop off in performance. If you then switch to the side country version of that boot, it will drop off further.
The difference between a solid soled boot and a hollow lugged boot is quite apparent if you have one on each foot. While you don't need the power of a race plug to drive a clown ski, you wouldn't want to ski Super G in a side country boot.

Your results may vary, but as someone who skis in a wide variety of boots all the time, that has sure been my experience.

pliny the elder
 

Castle Dave

Getting off the lift
Skier
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Posts
324
Here is a copy of a post I did about my Tecnicas FYI
Last February I retired my very old and much loved Atomic Free Ride 120s and bought the Tecnica 130 LV. I'm 6'1", 185 lbs, ski about 40 days a season and am older than dirt. Here is my experience:
-The old 120 is the new 130. Basically the same flex
-Lateral stiffness/response is much better with the new boots. Quicker for short turns and bumps.
-I have a MV foot with lots of HV lumps and bumps but I like a race fit boot. My fitter worked for about 5 hours and they are perfect in spite of being the LV model. Much credit to my fitter but also to the boot itself which is very easy to work on due to the type of plastic and partial perforations (like dimples) in key areas.

I would add that the OP's definition of 'Superb fit' right out of the box might mean they are too big. Everybody is different but the right fit out of the box for myself is very tight, not quite painful, with no biting nasty spots. I tell people to think of it as having an Ace/Tensor bandage wrapped tightly all around your foot.
 
Last edited:
Thread Starter
TS
bremmick

bremmick

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Jan 30, 2017
Posts
155
Location
Utah
Thanks for all the feedback.
I’m going to stop in the shop again. Or another. If anyone has a gray fitter in Salt Lake area.

The Fischer’s I tried were the Free 130’s. The felt like they were crimping over top my toes. Pinching them.

I’ll have to try and step down to 28.5 and see how the fit is. Not sure if the length will be there for my 13 foot.
 

Analisa

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Dec 29, 2017
Posts
982
@bremmick - the Hawx are special because if you lined up all the best 1400-1600g grilamid “true” touring boots that have downhill chops to more than satisfy most users, there are a lot - most brands have one. The Hawx are the only ones that fit in most downhill bindings. Lupos & Ascendant have the same appeal, just weigh a tad more.

I did see a Cochise out touring this morning, but I still don’t think it has quite the same guarantee as a 1 quiver boot as some of the other options.
 

ScottB

Making fresh tracks
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Oct 29, 2016
Posts
2,165
Location
Gloucester, MA
I ski in Lange RS 140's and I also have Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD 130 touring boots. There is a noticable difference in performance between the two. The lighter weight is very noticable, especially when going uphill. The Hawx are pretty stiff and don't give up too much to my Langes. The liners are the biggest difference to me. I have replacement Lange WC liners in my RS 140's and they grip my feet like a vice. I have no play at all between my leg and my ski, when I twitch, the ski twitches. The Hawks have a very thin, flexible liner and there is noticable play. Its not a problem, but there is reduced precision. I put my Lange liners in my Hawx's and they made them feel very similar to my Langes. I plan to ski them to see how they do in the resort.

Anyway, If you want to have one boot, I think you are looking at the best two boots for the job, the Cochise and the XT. They both have liners similar to a downhill boot. From what I have read and heard, they both ski almost the same as the downhill models. They both will be a less ideal AT boot, but will be perfectly acceptable for side country use. AT use is where they will be compromised due to weight, more cuff friction, and less range of motion. In terms of what you give up with a 50/50 boot, I think its mostly on the AT side and not much on the downhill side. (XT and Cochise). In terms of the Hawx, its way better at AT use, doesn't give up that much going up compared to a full AT boot, but there is a noticable compromise in precision for downhill unless you get a aftermarket liner. The less aggressive skier you are, the less you will mind the downhill compromise. With my light AT ski in the resort, I don't notice much drop on my Hawx, but with a heavy carving ski I do notice more play in my boots.
 

Sponsor

Top