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Philpug

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(From RENOUN): We first set out to put HDT into a ski almost 5 years ago. It has been a long road, filled with setbacks and seemingly endless trial and errors. But today, we're proud to announce RENOUN has received a full-fledged patent for HDT™.

When you think of the innovations of the past, the best have stuck with us (metal edges, parabolic skis etc) and we're well on our way to bring you so much more.

This is the future of skiing - we are glad you're with us.

Link to full Patent >

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Muleski

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So do we think there is any appetite on their part to license it to other companies, or that others would be interested? Or do they just stay the course and keep growing it?

Exciting stuff for Cyrus!
 
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Philpug

Philpug

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And to say, we knew him when. ;) Our little ski builder is growing up and getting patents of his own. [biting knuckle] I'm so proud [/biting knuckle]
 

crgildart

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Paging some physics geeks.. No clue as to what "non-Newtonian materials" is beyond a quick google search or how it would change ski performance.. Quick guess is it sounds like a liquid or goo which wouldn't freeze or change stiffness based on temperature allowing for fluid dampening where not previously possible? Am I even close here or are they planning something completely different here?
 

James

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Paging some physics geeks.. No clue as to what "non-Newtonian materials" is beyond a quick google search or how it would change ski performance.. Quick guess is it sounds like a liquid or goo which wouldn't freeze or change stiffness based on temperature allowing for fluid dampening where not previously possible? Am I even close here or are they planning something completely different here?
They've been using it for years. (Vaping in class again?) The material is not new, the ski application has been new. Renoun started with it afaik. It's D3O. Spyder had it in speed suits.
Padded hat:
 

Muleski

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I'm easily confused. I thought the skis were already being built with the technology, and had been since they started.

So, with that in mind, this patent seems to protect them, and in effect gives them the excessive right to use the material in a ski.

Hence, if another bigger ski manufacturer wants to use it, they either buy the company, buy the patent rights, work out a licensing deal, or I guess a royalty deal.

I think. Easy could be wrong on this one. Not my field, whatsoever......Regardless, nice next step and good news for Cyrus and team.
 

crgildart

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How does this differ from my Head SuperShape iWorld Cup with "liquidmetal"?? Liquid metal sure sounds "non-Newtonian".. insert mad scientist laugh muh ha ha!!
 

PTskier

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Simply stated, Newtonian viscosity doesn't change as the force on it changes. The motor oil in your car's engine, temperature constant, does not change viscosity when you step on the gas and the parts push harder against the oil film. Non-Newtonian products are different. The polymer used changes its damping characteristics as both the frequency and the amplitude of the inputs change, then they release that increased damping extremely rapidly when the inputs stop. These polymers increase their damping when the vibration inducing ridges in the ice you're skiing on either comes more quickly or when it increases in force. Renoun uses the same d3o material in all the places inside their skis. The material in the tips is thinned, maybe for a different response.

d3o has "a wide range of protective products delivering superior comfort, flexibility and fit for impact protection and shock absorption applications."
"D3O’s material scientists carefully tune polymer blends to achieve specific properties to the final application such as temperature stability, abrasion resistance or flexibility.
Our extensive material portfolio includes a wide range of grades compatible with different production processes. Each formulation is developed to meet the specific needs of diverse marketplaces and a wide range of product applications."

https://www.d3o.com/what-is-d3o/materials/
https://www.d3o.com/products/

I didn't know one could patent a different usage of an existing material. Anyway, a patent just makes it easier to sue someone who is using your idea. Muleski has the good idea...license the patent to other ski makers and rake in bushels of money.

"Liquidmetal alloys combine a number of desirable material features, including high tensile strength, excellent corrosion resistance, very high coefficient of restitution and excellent anti-wearing characteristics, while also being able to be heat-formed in processes similar to thermoplastics. Despite the name, they are not liquid at room temperature." These are non-crystalline metals. The high coefficient of restitution means that it's really springy and really needs damping.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquidmetal
 

James

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Yes, Cyrus/Renoun has been using D3O, a nnm, since starting their skis afaik. So that's 3-4 yrs.

The patent seems extremely broad. I thought it was use of nnm's in the structure of a ski. Stucture seems to be applied quite broadly. Sidewall is structure. It seems that any use of nnm inside a ski is covered. They should definitely license it.

From the patent linked above:

"Although the present invention has been described with respect to one or more embodiments, it will be understood that other embodiments of the present invention may be made without departing from the spirit and scope of the present invention. Hence, the present invention is deemed limited only by the appended claims and the reasonable interpretation thereof."
 

mdf

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I'm easily confused. I thought the skis were already being built with the technology, and had been since they started.

It takes a long time for a patent to be approved (or rejected, for that matter).

The best-known non-Newtonian material is silly putty.

The patent seems extremely broad.

I haven't looked at the patent. The normal practice is to write the patent as broadly as possible, but to state it in a bunch of different claims so if some get thrown out there is still a core protection left.
 

Muleski

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It takes a long time for a patent to be approved (or rejected, for that matter).
.

That, I do understand, believe it or not. I know a couple of guys in this business who hold a lot of patents.
What I wanted to get at was that Cyrus {I thought} basically designed the ski based on using the material, so that this is not a case of getting a patent approved, and then planning on some redesign of the ski.

Sorry if I was really confusing!
 

PTskier

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I did see the email this morning. Congratulations @Cyrus Schenck So if I don't win a season pass to wherever, I figure I can take the Z77's I win to Austria when I win that :roflmao:
Two pair of new Renoun skis are included in the prize. I'd worry about the "tailored alpine sportswear kit." I don't think I'd look good in lederhosen.
 

pchewn

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Yes, Silly Putty is the best-known non-Newtonian material. It gets much stiffer as the rate of load application increases. (A quick snappy pull will break it, a slow pull will make it stretch). This would be "NEGATIVE" non-Newtonian behavior.

There are other materials that are POSITIVE non-Newtonian. Then get less stiff/less viscous when the rate of load is increased. These are called Thixotropic materials. Some solder pastes and glues are thixotropic.
 

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