Bump and Tree recommendation

itsbs2

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Hey All - looking for a recommendation on skis! I’m looking for something that is pretty nimble for skiing bumps, trees, and groomers at the resort. I had a pair of Rossignol Exp 88Ti which I really loved, but they broke and the new model is not nearly as bump and tree friendly. I would say they will be used about equally in the bumps and trees and then slightly less on groomers. I have a pair of Jski Hotshots for fresh snow and bowl/chute days so any day with more than a few inches of fresh snow I will be on those. Any suggestions/recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks!
 

ELDoane

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Do you like your Hotshots? A similar feel, but less rocker and more edge grip is the Fastforward. 92 underfoot and I have used them plenty in the early season bumps and trees here in VT. Good all arounder, carves hard for it's width and has that forgiving J ski feel like the Hotshot. Good suspension for launching yourself, if that's a thing.

How much float do you need? For an absolute tree slayer, I still think the DPS Wailer shape, now known as the RP designation in the Pagoda series is unbeatable. I love the 112 for snowy days and it's darn near telepathic in turn initiation. But, 112 underfoot sure ain't going to be nimble in the bumps. Same shape comes in a 100 and 90 waist so you can tune to fit your targeted conditions. Given that you plan to use these in under a few inches of new snow, maybe the 90s are a good choice.

Final note, bumps and trees often get grouped together, but I don't really think that's always helpful. If you ski the bumps like you do the trees, that is, a more rounded turn shape, lots of finished C's, and a more tactical style, then my recommendation holds. If you prefer to jam moguls, rip a more zipper line approach, and really reverse bicycle at speed through the things, a stiffer, narrower ski with a longer turn radius than I suggested is the ticket. But, I think you'd enjoy yourself less in the trees on such a thing.
 

Wendy

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Do you like your Hotshots? A similar feel, but less rocker and more edge grip is the Fastforward. 92 underfoot and I have used them plenty in the early season bumps and trees here in VT. Good all arounder, carves hard for it's width and has that forgiving J ski feel like the Hotshot. Good suspension for launching yourself, if that's a thing.

How much float do you need? For an absolute tree slayer, I still think the DPS Wailer shape, now known as the RP designation in the Pagoda series is unbeatable. I love the 112 for snowy days and it's darn near telepathic in turn initiation. But, 112 underfoot sure ain't going to be nimble in the bumps. Same shape comes in a 100 and 90 waist so you can tune to fit your targeted conditions. Given that you plan to use these in under a few inches of new snow, maybe the 90s are a good choice.

Final note, bumps and trees often get grouped together, but I don't really think that's always helpful. If you ski the bumps like you do the trees, that is, a more rounded turn shape, lots of finished C's, and a more tactical style, then my recommendation holds. If you prefer to jam moguls, rip a more zipper line approach, and really reverse bicycle at speed through the things, a stiffer, narrower ski with a longer turn radius than I suggested is the ticket. But, I think you'd enjoy yourself less in the trees on such a thing.
@itsbs2 Look for a Wailer 99 somewhere on close out. They’re still out there, I think. That ski is very slithery-fun!
 

ELDoane

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Look for a Wailer 99 somewhere on close out. They’re still out there, I think. That ski is very slithery-fun!
+1,000! I love that ski. Bonus points if you can score some in the arctic camo topsheet. The Army bought a pile for Mountain Warfare units to try out. AT skis aren't really practical for what we do, but it sure made for a fun set of gear to take out.
 

Wendy

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+1,000! I love that ski. Bonus points if you can score some in the arctic camo topsheet. The Army bought a pile for Mountain Warfare units to try out. AT skis aren't really practical for what we do, but it sure made for a fun set of gear to take out.
Mine are the orange Alchemist version. I’ve also got a pair of aqua Nina99’s mounted for tele.

I just checked; there are still some Wailer 99’s in Alchemist and Foundation construction out there (Powder7) and also the Wailer100.

I never saw the Arctic camo top sheet….but wow to that!

My Wailer99’s don’t look groomer-friendly, due to the tapered tips, tails and rocker, but they are surprisingly good and fun and groomers. Even on cold refrozen spring mornings. So bonus: great tree/bump/small spaces ski that still does well on groomers.
 
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itsbs2

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Final note, bumps and trees often get grouped together, but I don't really think that's always helpful. If you ski the bumps like you do the trees, that is, a more rounded turn shape, lots of finished C's, and a more tactical style, then my recommendation holds. If you prefer to jam moguls, rip a more zipper line approach, and really reverse bicycle at speed through the things, a stiffer, narrower ski with a longer turn radius than I suggested is the ticket. But, I think you'd enjoy yourself less in the trees on such a thing.
I love the hotshots! Have considered the fast forward but have not been able to find many reviews. Your definitely right about combining bumps and trees into the same category. Really these will come out for when the trees are skiing like the bumps. I definitely prefer a tighter radius, more tactical approach to bumps. No zipper lines for me.

Today I demoed a pair of head Kore 93s and they were way too stiff in the tail. Also tried out some Nordica enforcer 94s which were really nice but I’d like something slightly more playful I think. I’ll keep an eye out for some pagoda 90s! They sound like they could work.
 
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itsbs2

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@itsbs2 Look for a Wailer 99 somewhere on close out. They’re still out there, I think. That ski is very slithery-fun!
Do they ski like a narrower waist? I am a bit worried about something so wide underfoot for the bumps. I have a 104 underfoot ski for fresher snow so looking for something good for between storms when the snow is a bit more firm.
 

ELDoane

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I love the hotshots! Have considered the fast forward but have not been able to find many reviews.

My thoughts are in there. If you're after softer tails, the FF might be your ticket.

I will add toy initial thoughts that they were just fine in low snow trees, plenty of pivot and responsiveness at low edge angles.
 

ski otter 2

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I have a question about the latest DPS Wailers. I skied two of them back in November at a demo day - I believe 94 Alchemist Wailers C2, and 100 Pagoda Wailers C2. Not the RPs, but instead the C2s. I liked both a lot, but sort of loved the 100 Pagodas - lighter and more lively but still damp. I'm thinking of getting a pair but I've since heard they get tossed too much in crud, so not sure now. I was skiing afternoon groomers and places where bumps, skied off ice and bunched up crud were forming, and the Pagodas were just such a combination of easy laid back and yet precise - a real revelation and a pleasure to ski on.

My question is, how specialized for groomers and carving is the C2 version, compared to the looser (as I recall) RP (Resort Powder) version? Is the RP version in those narrower widths just clearly more for off piste, trees and bumps, or not?

(The Pagoda Wailer C2 just had such a laid back but effective carve, that I wonder if it would work well in bumps also - especially with rounder, more "tree" C turns, as described above.)
 

Wendy

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I have a question about the latest DPS Wailers. I skied two of them back in November at a demo day - I believe 94 Alchemist Wailers C2, and 100 Pagoda Wailers C2. Not the RPs, but instead the C2s. I liked both a lot, but sort of loved the 100 Pagodas - lighter and more lively but still damp. I'm thinking of getting a pair but I've since heard they get tossed too much in crud, so not sure now. I was skiing afternoon groomers and places where bumps, skied off ice and bunched up crud were forming, and the Pagodas were just such a combination of easy laid back and yet precise - a real revelation and a pleasure to ski on.

My question is, how specialized for groomers and carving is the C2 version, compared to the looser (as I recall) RP (Resort Powder) version? Is the RP version in those narrower widths just clearly more for off piste, trees and bumps, or not?

(The Pagoda Wailer C2 just had such a laid back but effective carve, that I wonder if it would work well in bumps also - especially with rounder, more "tree" C turns, as described above.)
I haven’t skied the C2 in comparison but your description sounds similar to what I feel in my Wailer99’s though the shape of mine is more off piste oriented than the C2’s. If you really want to find out, the people at DPS are good at answering these types of questions. I would imagine though that the C2 would be great in bumps too, being laid back. @Olesya C has the 94 C2 and loves them.
 

Wendy

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Do they ski like a narrower waist? I am a bit worried about something so wide underfoot for the bumps. I have a 104 underfoot ski for fresher snow so looking for something good for between storms when the snow is a bit more firm.
They definitely don’t feel like 99 underfoot, I think due to their heavily tapered tips. But since you already have a 104, then I’d probably look for something a bit narrower.
 

GregK

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The DPS Pagoda Piste 90 RP would be more suitable DPS ski that still very tapered like their wider skis but with better capabilities on groomers. The Armada Declivity 92 Ti would be a more reasonably priced option that I think would be even more fun in bumps and trees and more stability than the DPS 90 RP.

Also agree that the JSkis Fastforward or the very similar 21 Faction CT 1.0 would also be fantastic options that would VASTLY outperform the 2 above options in variable conditions and in stability. These are your “more playful” Enforcer 88/94, Kendo 88 and Brahma 88 options. Much more similar to your Wider Hotshot but much quicker edge to edge and better edge grip. Powerful yet still very fun!
 

ELDoane

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My question is, how specialized for groomers and carving is the C2 version, compared to the looser (as I recall) RP (Resort Powder) version? Is the RP version in those narrower widths just clearly more for off piste, trees and bumps, or not?
I have the A87 in my quiver, it has the C2 shape and I used to ride a F95, but unloaded it as I didn't like the Foundation construction as much as the Alchemist.

So, the big changes you'll feel with the C2 shaping is the 19m radius, rather than 15 in the RP and the much longer effective edge. Unless you roll an RP ski way over, you really only have around 60% of the ski length edge in contact with the snow. Now, if you do roll it over, an RP can lay down a nice carve, but it's not as intuitive or easy. The C2 will feel far more directional and wants to head for the fall line. The RP is much happier turning all over the place.

In exchange, the RP will slash, pivot, float, and turn far better and faster than the C2 in the woods. I can ski my A87 in the trees just fine, but my Wailer 112 makes me feel like a dang tree skiing god. There is no line too tight for those things. My favorite terrain for the A87, on the other hand, is spring corn and soft bumps. It is fantastic there. I also found it far less twitchy than the RP shape at speed or carving. A high speed GS turn on the Wailer 112 is an exciting experience and I'll leave it at that.

As for getting knocked around in the crud, that is a function of weight more than anything else, in my opinon. You already own my favorite crud destroyer in the Hotshot. I ski the Metal and it is my go to stick for chopped up days. The DPS will slice through fine, if you drive it, and the carbon damping will be there for you. But there's no substitute for 'eavy metal when you just want to tell that clump of snow to piss off and get out of your way. I've had similar experiences with the Renoun Endurance 98. Plenty stiff and strong when I want to drive through tracked up stuff, but it still weighs less than a soda can and you can tell when it gets manky.

I think your decision comes down to where you want to bias your gear. If you prefer stable, damp, and predictable at speed, go with the FF or the Faction CT 1.0 GregK suggested. There's no substitute for metal if you want to bust through stuff. If you'd rather have a more responsive, nimble, "dance-y" sort of feel, get the RP. You'll lose something in cruddy conditions and icy bumps, but you will have an ultra-responsive date in snowy trees. Finally, if you're trying to have a foot in both worlds, like a more "flickable" lighter weight ski, and see yourself not really needing much flotation in the trees, the C2 in a narrower waist is not a bad idea.
 
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Olesya C

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I have a question about the latest DPS Wailers. I skied two of them back in November at a demo day - I believe 94 Alchemist Wailers C2, and 100 Pagoda Wailers C2. Not the RPs, but instead the C2s. I liked both a lot, but sort of loved the 100 Pagodas - lighter and more lively but still damp. I'm thinking of getting a pair but I've since heard they get tossed too much in crud, so not sure now. I was skiing afternoon groomers and places where bumps, skied off ice and bunched up crud were forming, and the Pagodas were just such a combination of easy laid back and yet precise - a real revelation and a pleasure to ski on.

My question is, how specialized for groomers and carving is the C2 version, compared to the looser (as I recall) RP (Resort Powder) version? Is the RP version in those narrower widths just clearly more for off piste, trees and bumps, or not?

(The Pagoda Wailer C2 just had such a laid back but effective carve, that I wonder if it would work well in bumps also - especially with rounder, more "tree" C turns, as described above.)
I own DPS Pagoda 94 Piste C2 and I love them in everything I skied, which is East Coast ice, and soft snow on top of ice, spring snow/warm conditions, few inches of powder, bumps, trees. I also skied them in 3-4 inches of powder out West and they were great. I like them in bumps very much, they are easy to pivot, they have some tail rocker, not a lot but enough that pivoting/smearing them is easy IMHO. I skied them in some easier trees on a few inches of fresh and they were easy to ski on. I also can rip on them on corduroy groomers and they can even handle some firmer groomers, even fairly composed on ice. They are a lot of fun on spring slush/corn snow too. They are easy to get on edge and carve. Like @Wendy mentioned I love this ski because it's so versatile, IMHO. Probably the most versatile ski I have ever been on.

If I had to look for something I didn't like it would be that maybe I would like a slightly damper ski - these don't have metal so on the lively side, but all in all they are damp enough and everything else works well and I am happy with them. I used to ski on Kastles with metal so I am used skis that are super damp - it's all relative.
 
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Bad Bob

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Think it is better to bump into evergreens, preferably with low branches.
This based off of years of personal research at ska areas and golf courses.
 
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