• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

Primoz

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Posts
2,495
Location
Slovenia, Europe
Other stuff from this weekend men’s SL in Madonna — that is a fantastic SL hill. I’m going there soon to ski, looking forward to that — but great to see Jakobsen striking from the back of the field. Hargin lost after his change to Head. Muhrer apparently skied sick...

@Swede I'm not sure Hargin lost it after switching to Head. He wasn't anywhere near where he was in last few years, but honestly, after something like what happened to him, I think he does it great, even if he's not top 3.

Admin Edit: The first 24 posts in this thread were pulled from the Mikaela Shiffrin thread.
If someone has a better idea for a title, I'm happy to change it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Swede

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Jan 29, 2016
Posts
2,391
Location
Sweden
@Primoz
He has been through a lot and that has had an impact no doubt, but the switch has put him in a new low. His skiing this season is m u c h worse. Not saying the new equip. is worse, just that it can take time to find the right set-up and it looks like Mattias is pretty far from that right now. But he is a fighter ...
 

Started at 53

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Posts
2,129
Location
Not Ikon, UT
@Swede and @Primoz

Porino was talking about Head skis being a liability in SL this week. He mentioned they are improving, but at this time they are speed specific and have a lot to go to become competitive in tech
 

Swede

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Jan 29, 2016
Posts
2,391
Location
Sweden
@Swede and @Primoz

Porino was talking about Head skis being a liability in SL this week. He mentioned they are improving, but at this time they are speed specific and have a lot to go to become competitive in tech

They have been dominant in speed and has put a lot of recources there (GS is tech though, but today in practice almost a speed discipline). There used to be talk/joking a few years back that HEAD couldn’t build a descent SL ski. I don’t think that is accurate today. There are a lot of small things that goes into a competitive set-up. A great service-man is one. Boots another one. So the ski is just one part of the equation.
 

4ster

Just because you can doesn’t mean you should!
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
7,243
Location
Sierra & Wasatch
@Swede and @Primoz

Porino was talking about Head skis being a liability in SL this week. He mentioned they are improving, but at this time they are speed specific and have a lot to go to become competitive in tech
Bode Miller was once the fastest slalom skier in the world. When he switched to Head his SL was essentially over, skier or ski. :huh: Maybe a little of each.
 

James

Out There
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
24,850
I seriously doubt Bode's slalom decline had anything to do with Head. Didn't he ski on Fischer, Rossi, and Atomic over his career?
 

4ster

Just because you can doesn’t mean you should!
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
7,243
Location
Sierra & Wasatch
I seriously doubt Bode's slalom decline had anything to do with Head. Didn't he ski on Fischer, Rossi, and Atomic over his career?
Yes he did & Nordica boots. His slalom was top notch...
till he switched to head.
Maybe it was the boots
He was also older and getting to be more of a speed guy.
 

Muleski

So much better than a pro
Inactive
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
5,243
Location
North of Boston
I’ll weigh in, more on this race stuff sometime over the next couple of days. Bode’s “decline in SL” had ZERO to do with his skis, or boots. Not one thing. I know it quite well. You might consider that he added 40+ lbs of mass, to start. That’s the issue.

I talk don’t know how much I can even get into these topics here, anymore. People speculating....guessing, inventing. This reminds me of a former forum. This has been discussed a great deal before.

Steve Porino knows jack shit about SL skis, BTW. He’s a great guy. He was a very competent DHer, and he knows how to do his job. Don’t take everything he states as fact. Nor should you with Bode. There is a lot of “common knowledge” in Steve’s comments.

The fact is that nobody is winning WC globes on Head SL skis, but it MIGHT BE the athletes, not the skis. How does Steve know that Hirscher and Mikaela both might be faster in a Head SL setup. Wendy Holdener is pretty quick, and on MS’s heels.

If you recall, back in the day when Ligety was a better SL skier than a GS skier, and this young guy, Hirscher exploded on the scene, they skied both events and were in about the same place. During the last two years before the 35M skis, big advantage Ligety in GS, advantage SL to Hirscher. 35M skis are built, and Ted is unbeatable. Hirscher’s skis suck, and he can’t win. He, however has great SL skis built for him, with Atomic cosmetics, and he wins. Arrow, archer, or both? I say both.

That spring and summer, Ligety and Bode has spend ALL of their time dialing in GS skis, and on Bodes case, training a ton of speed. Head was way ahead of the game in the development of those GS skis.Neither was skiing much SL. And it showed. And of course, the word was that Head SL skis suck. As all of the SL specialists were not on Head. Bode’s, Ted’s...all of them sucked, right. Not so. You look at younger guys on the top stock and they kill it. This is true on the Europa Cup, the NCAA, etc.

SL skiers often grow out of it. Steven Nyman was one of the best SL skiers in the world as a U21. Svindal started as a dominant SL skier. Vonn was a phenom as a SL skier, predicted for greatness before she ever skier a DH, and reached 180 lbs. And yes, Bode. Ever see pictures of teenage Bode. Rail thin. Bode about 5 years ago? Tight end big. Mass is big in speed, and the two disciplines could not be more different. It might work for Ms. Shiffrin, but not for guys.

It was not the skis. Though Bode drove every race room director crazy, making them press SL skis over and over again. Boots? They are all built very similarly to that original matte black Dobie. Though Bode’s Heads are a complete custom clog, and cuff. As are those of another half dozen Head guys and ladies. But Bode, again drove people nuts at three other companies insisting on that same feel...to bring back his SL.

It took one of his closest friends becoming his tech coach, and his most trusted speed coach telling him that “Bode, you are no longer a SL skier....give it up. Stop this.” Others are not as stubborn.

Head can and does make decent SL skis. Most of their money goes to the speed programs and the speed skiers. Because their CEO thinks that’s the “real sport” and he loves his stable of speed skiers. Pretty obvious with both genders. Keeps adding them.

Have a nice Christmas, BTW.
 

4ster

Just because you can doesn’t mean you should!
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
7,243
Location
Sierra & Wasatch
I’ll weigh in, more on this race stuff sometime over the next couple of days. Bode’s “decline in SL” had ZERO to do with his skis, or boots. Not one thing. I know it quite well. You might consider that he added 40+ lbs of mass, to start. That’s the issue.

I talk don’t know how much I can even get into these topics here, anymore. People speculating....guessing, inventing. This reminds me of a former forum. This has been discussed a great deal before.

Steve Porino knows jack shit about SL skis, BTW. He’s a great guy. He was a very competent DHer, and he knows how to do his job. Don’t take everything he states as fact. Nor should you with Bode. There is a lot of “common knowledge” in Steve’s comments.

The fact is that nobody is winning WC globes on Head SL skis, but it MIGHT BE the athletes, not the skis. How does Steve know that Hirscher and Mikaela both might be faster in a Head SL setup. Wendy Holdener is pretty quick, and on MS’s heels.

If you recall, back in the day when Ligety was a better SL skier than a GS skier, and this young guy, Hirscher exploded on the scene, they skied both events and were in about the same place. During the last two years before the 35M skis, big advantage Ligety in GS, advantage SL to Hirscher. 35M skis are built, and Ted is unbeatable. Hirscher’s skis suck, and he can’t win. He, however has great SL skis built for him, with Atomic cosmetics, and he wins. Arrow, archer, or both? I say both.

That spring and summer, Ligety and Bode has spend ALL of their time dialing in GS skis, and on Bodes case, training a ton of speed. Head was way ahead of the game in the development of those GS skis.Neither was skiing much SL. And it showed. And of course, the word was that Head SL skis suck. As all of the SL specialists were not on Head. Bode’s, Ted’s...all of them sucked, right. Not so. You look at younger guys on the top stock and they kill it. This is true on the Europa Cup, the NCAA, etc.

SL skiers often grow out of it. Steven Nyman was one of the best SL skiers in the world as a U21. Svindal started as a dominant SL skier. Vonn was a phenom as a SL skier, predicted for greatness before she ever skier a DH, and reached 180 lbs. And yes, Bode. Ever see pictures of teenage Bode. Rail thin. Bode about 5 years ago? Tight end big. Mass is big in speed, and the two disciplines could not be more different. It might work for Ms. Shiffrin, but not for guys.

It was not the skis. Though Bode drove every race room director crazy, making them press SL skis over and over again. Boots? They are all built very similarly to that original matte black Dobie. Though Bode’s Heads are a complete custom clog, and cuff. As are those of another half dozen Head guys and ladies. But Bode, again drove people nuts at three other companies insisting on that same feel...to bring back his SL.

It took one of his closest friends becoming his tech coach, and his most trusted speed coach telling him that “Bode, you are no longer a SL skier....give it up. Stop this.” Others are not as stubborn.

Head can and does make decent SL skis. Most of their money goes to the speed programs and the speed skiers. Because their CEO thinks that’s the “real sport” and he loves his stable of speed skiers. Pretty obvious with both genders. Keeps adding them.

Have a nice Christmas, BTW.
Yeah, that’s what I said. ogwink :D
Merry Christmas!
 

Pete in Idaho

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Posts
1,132
Location
St. Maries - Northern Idaho
Muleski, 4ster. Please don't stop posting here. Your insight and input is invaluable. I learn more WC here than anywhere so please keep it up. None of my ski buds up here ever raced and just don't have the love of racing like I do, living tucked away in the Bitteroots is awesome but you are my only connection with the WC. BIG thank you from No. Idaho and I am sure there are many more here on Pugski that feel thesame way. Don't let the 2% crowd win at anything.
 

David Chaus

Beyond Help
Skier
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
5,587
Location
Stanwood, WA
I feel the same way as Pete. I appreciate the posts. I do not have the benefit of racing experience (maybe that’s actually a handicap of having some knowledge fortified by experience at speculation). I have learned so much about the ins and outs of what goes on behind the scenes, as well as what it is I am really seeing when I view a race, by having @Muleski and @4ster in addition to @Primoz and other a few others provide observations and insight.

I mean, if all I had was Steve Porino.....
 

Jack skis

Ex 207cm VR17 Skier
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Posts
893
Location
Fidalgo Island, WA
As David Chas posted above there are people here on Pugski who know something, or a lot, about WC racing, racers, and equipment. And so does Steve Porino who has raced at pretty much the highest level, knows the people involved, the courses, the politics, and can convey that knowledge in his race commentaries. It even shows in his voice when he sees a close call, or impending doom. He can call a right footer problem when he sees one (and he knows to whom I'm referring) . Most of the time he's paired with an announcer rather than an ex-ski racer and can be put in the position of explaining action to his mike mate as well as to the audience. David, if your comment was not criticism of Porino, my apologies; however, I read "I mean, if all I had was Steve Porino....." as criticism and disagree with it. But as has often been said "what do I know?", I enjoyed the commentary pairing of Porino and Doug Lewis. If you feel I need counseling please PM me.
 

David Chaus

Beyond Help
Skier
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
5,587
Location
Stanwood, WA
Well, Jack, I suppose it was criticism, and though intended in jest, I apologize.
 

Muleski

So much better than a pro
Inactive
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
5,243
Location
North of Boston
I made the Steve Porino comment, and it was specific to his comment about Head SL skis. I have met Steve a few times. He’s a very close friend of mutual friend, who is on here. He’s very knowlegable, and has worked his ass off as a journalist. And yes, he knows a TON of what’s going on. Both genders.

But the ski comment was just repeating the “same old”, and frankly I thought Steve might not slip into that. I also mentioned Bode, as Bode will make the same manufacturer related comments...not necessarily Head. But again, not always ALL that current.

No big deal. I think both of them do a great job in their broadcasting. Both good people. Doug Lewis brings a lot of energy to his work. Not that convinced that he is so current, but SO much more that any “regular” sports broadcaster. All three get it done.

A lot of “stuff” is broadcast by these guys that is spot on, some comes to them third hand and it’s not so accurate. Guess that’s just the business. Sometimes they get a bit over their tips. Doesn’t make an ounce of difference to 99%+ of those watching,

And I completely agree that we are fortunate to see whatever we can, when we can in the USA. It’s too bad, but it is what it is!
 
Thread Starter
TS
Primoz

Primoz

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Posts
2,495
Location
Slovenia, Europe
There's slight difference beeing TV commentator and posting something on internet forum. I won't say I know Porino, I have met him few times on races and that's it. Not a friend, not even acquaintance, and as I'm not in US, I never even had chance to listen to his broadcasts. But thing is, once you are on TV where millions of people are listening you, you need to comment different then you would on internet forum. Here I can write whatever I want, and if someone feels offended so be it. On TV, you can't afford that, so even if you know tons of stuff, and I'm sure Porino does know it, you need to filter what you will tell to all those millions.
 

Swede

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Jan 29, 2016
Posts
2,391
Location
Sweden
Haven’t heard Porino comment so I can’t comment. The talk about HEADS (in)ability to make a good SL ski is an old joke in the sport. It is not accurate and the best athletes will always be up there when the fat lady sings. BUT, it can take time when you go from one make to another to find the right set up(s). Sometimes it is mostly psychological, but ... still holding the skier back... Hargin e.g have had a tough time since he lost Matilda, not really the same. But this season he switched brands and hit a new low. To me it looks like he is off and in Madonna he didn’t even qualify for 2:nd! This is SL and to some degree GS. Speed is another animal where a specific pair of fast skis can make a big difference if you are a top 20 skier. HEAD has poured a lot of resources in and pressed lots of skis, which have resulted in many fast pairs. Which has been put on the feet of some (most) of the top skiers. Merry Christmas y’all!
 
Last edited:

Noodler

Sir Turn-a-lot
Skier
Joined
Oct 4, 2017
Posts
6,420
Location
Denver, CO
Any discussion of Porino has to call out the glaringly obvious failures in his ability to understand and call-out "good" skiing. Time and again, Steve's comments on a racer do not match their time splits. He'll be talking about what a great line the skier is taking or how they're "nailing those turns" and then the split shows up on the screen and they've fallen a second back. Of course the opposite happens too, where Steve will say the skier is "too hard on their edges" and yet the splits keep coming in faster and faster. He may be a nice guy and has WC experience, but he really doesn't provide the technical play-by-play very well.
 

Swede

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Jan 29, 2016
Posts
2,391
Location
Sweden
Any discussion of Porino has to call out the glaringly obvious failures in his ability to understand and call-out "good" skiing. Time and again, Steve's comments on a racer do not match their time splits. He'll be talking about what a great line the skier is taking or how they're "nailing those turns" and then the split shows up on the screen and they've fallen a second back. Of course the opposite happens too, where Steve will say the skier is "too hard on their edges" and yet the splits keep coming in faster and faster. He may be a nice guy and has WC experience, but he really doesn't provide the technical play-by-play very well.

I think this is a classic when it comes to alpine commentary. Stig Strand, which is a great guy I have skied with him a few times, who was a pretty good WC skier, but unfortunate for him in Stenmarks huge, dark shadow, was notorious over here for exactly that. Anjas father then followed suit. Now, finally, we have Pernilla Wiberg who actually nails it pretty often. Very intelligent woman. But what looks (or feels) fast and what actually is, can be different things. Only the clock can tell.
 
Last edited:

4ster

Just because you can doesn’t mean you should!
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
7,243
Location
Sierra & Wasatch
Any discussion of Porino has to call out the glaringly obvious failures in his ability to understand and call-out "good" skiing. Time and again, Steve's comments on a racer do not match their time splits. He'll be talking about what a great line the skier is taking or how they're "nailing those turns" and then the split shows up on the screen and they've fallen a second back. Of course the opposite happens too, where Steve will say the skier is "too hard on their edges" and yet the splits keep coming in faster and faster. He may be a nice guy and has WC experience, but he really doesn't provide the technical play-by-play very well.
Bob Beattie was the worst for this, in fact we used to think he was a curse. As soon as he would say a racer was nailing it, the racer would go out or throw em' sideways :doh: .
It’s got to be a tough job trying to appeal to many levels of understanding & trying to sound fresh without repeating your favorite catch phrase. I for one think that Porino has improved tremendously & we’ve had much worse than his pairing with Steve Schlanger.

My comments on Head were kind of tongue in cheek about any correlation between Bodes equipment switch & his demise as a SL skier. Fact is he still had some pretty fast sections before skiing out & a good enough SL run to get Bronze in the combined at the 2014 Sochi games even after dedicating his emphasis to speed.

EDIT: I was wrong about Bode Miller’s combined in 2014. He actually won the Olympic gold medal in super combined at the 2010 Vancouver games.
 
Last edited:

Started at 53

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Posts
2,129
Location
Not Ikon, UT
Hmm, I am not an expert like many/some here on WC racing and all that it entails, but I love watching it and NEVER miss a televised race.

That being said, I think you guys are out of your depth in criticizing commentators. Sure, Steve makes some mistakes that have been pointed out, and that is a mistake I made once and was quickly informed it is a bad mistake that makes you look bad.

That being said, I like Steve’s commentary, I prefer Bode, but that is not gonna happen in a non-Olympic year. Might not happen in 4 years to be honest.

Not trying to step on any toes, but it is a LOT harder than people think to even do a decent job on the air.
 
Top