Individual Review CARV

[Mike King]

Here's the thing--if it doesn't feel different, it probably isn't different. In order to make the change, you are going to have to do whatever 300% -- completely overdo it. There's times when instantaneous (or nearly) feedback is useful, and times when it isn't. It's perfectly acceptable to not use Carv for a run, a day, a week, or months. I took a hiatus from Carv for 2-3 months after Tom Gellie forbid me to use it. Now I'm focusing on specific elements, usually reviewing after 7 or 8 runs. Or a few days. It's a tool. You need time to try a new movement pattern, move it from the cognitive stage (have to think about it) to the associative stage (consciously competent) to the automous stage (unconsciously competent).

 

[gratedwasabi]

I agree. I still think it's a good tool, but I don't think the new "train with" features are fully fleshed out. Specifically how annoying it is to have it triggering while not actually on a run, unless you take your phone out, pause it, then stop at the top of the run, take your phone out, etc.

I would also like an option to -only tell me when I'm doing especially well- rather than negative dings when something is wrong during drills/train with. Psychologically it works the same (ie.. no praise = not good) but it's less stressful than a negative BEEEEEP.

So don't trigger the drills unless you're going __ speed and give the option to customize how much/what sort of feedback you're getting. Also a bit better system of "okay we've told them the same thing 4 runs in a row and the scores aren't better, go to an alternate tip/goal for now"

I like Carv, I just think it needs more fleshing out/customizable options until the training features really shine through. For now free ski seems the shining feature of Carv.

 

[Mike King]

I agree. I still think it's a good tool, but I don't think the new "train with" features are fully fleshed out. Specifically how annoying it is to have it triggering while not actually on a run, unless you take your phone out, pause it, then stop at the top of the run, take your phone out, etc.

I would also like an option to -only tell me when I'm doing especially well- rather than negative dings when something is wrong during drills/train with. Psychologically it works the same (ie.. no praise = not good) but it's less stressful than a negative BEEEEEP.

So don't trigger the drills unless you're going __ speed and give the option to customize how much/what sort of feedback you're getting. Also a bit better system of "okay we've told them the same thing 4 runs in a row and the scores aren't better, go to an alternate tip/goal for now"

I like Carv, I just think it needs more fleshing out/customizable options until the training features really shine through. For now free ski seems the shining feature of Carv.

I've started Train with an Olympian. I think it is quite good but I need to be in a mode to focus on it. Now the snow is too soft to work on it. I made it through level 20 in 4 runs...

 

[helixbc]

Here's the thing--if it doesn't feel different, it probably isn't different. In order to make the change, you are going to have to do whatever 300% -- completely overdo it. There's times when instantaneous (or nearly) feedback is useful, and times when it isn't. It's perfectly acceptable to not use Carv for a run, a day, a week, or months. I took a hiatus from Carv for 2-3 months after Tom Gellie forbid me to use it. Now I'm focusing on specific elements, usually reviewing after 7 or 8 runs. Or a few days. It's a tool. You need time to try a new movement pattern, move it from the cognitive stage (have to think about it) to the associative stage (consciously competent) to the automous stage (unconsciously competent).

I'm glad Tom has never forbidden me. HAHAHA. I love it as a tool to use with Tom's feedback. However when I use it, it is for a specific reason in combination with Tom's instruction.

 

[Bahama Brunch Bar]

I was gifted some carvs, which I haven't used yet and I'm not even sure how I feel about them, but I'm also going to get new boots this week. Would it make sense to bring them in for the bootfitter to put in? Is this something bootfitters are used to doing now? I'm a little apprehensive about getting the perfect boot fit only to add the 2mm or whatever and mess it up, but I also don't even know if I'll like using it. I DO love data though, which I'm sure is why my father gave it to me.

Not that anyone is following this, but in case someone with a similar question comes across this later: I got new boots. They work great, but because of my high instep there's basically no room in them (especially the right one) for a carv. I'll probably return these, even though I was excited to get data.

 

[UGASkiDawg]

Not that anyone is following this, but in case someone with a similar question comes across this later: I got new boots. They work great, but because of my high instep there's basically no room in them (especially the right one) for a carv. I'll probably return these, even though I was excited to get data.

Data is more important than pain.

 

[TheArchitect]

Not that anyone is following this, but in case someone with a similar question comes across this later: I got new boots. They work great, but because of my high instep there's basically no room in them (especially the right one) for a carv. I'll probably return these, even though I was excited to get data.

I got Carv and skied with it for a few days. Then I added some Zipfit liners and the Carv unit would no longer fit in the boot without some pain so I returned them. While I did have them I thought they were a lot of fun to use. I firmly believe that lessons with an instructor are more valuable than using Carv but as a stat geek I would have loved to keep using it. If they ever come out with a thinner version I may give it another shot just for the fun factor.

 

[Mike King]

Not that anyone is following this, but in case someone with a similar question comes across this later: I got new boots. They work great, but because of my high instep there's basically no room in them (especially the right one) for a carv. I'll probably return these, even though I was excited to get data.

Have a boot fitter lower your boot board (zeppa) by 3mm.

 

[Wade]

Tom Gellie podcast on updates to the Carv system for this season. Seems like they're continuing to make the app and metrics better and better as they collect more data and evolve their thinking about what the product can be. I'm excited to get back on it this season.

 

[UGASkiDawg]

Tom Gellie podcast on updates to the Carv system for this season. Seems like they're continuing to make the app and metrics better and better as they collect more data and evolve their thinking about what the product can be. I'm excited to get back on it this season.

Me as well. It has truly changed the way I think about my skiing and what I do on an average day out on the hill.

 

[Mike King]

142 on day two this season. Not bad for really firm not smooth snow. The new updates are not out in the current release yet -- should be arriving mid to late this month.

 

[Wade]

A few of my takeaways from the podcast:

- The Carv guys are really impressive. Clearly very smart, creative and hard working people. What I was most impressed by in this interview was their openness to learning and the evolution in the way they think about applying the metrics they can measure. I had also not given them as much credit as I should have for the passion for the sport and it sounds like (from their conversation with Gellie) they're good skiers also.

- The way they've refined the Ski IQ measurement was really interesting. It seems like they learnt a lot last season in terms of correlating data with observed skiing performance, and tweaked the way the measure elements of the data and how the data is weighted in Ski IQ to match that. An example they gave was that they were trying to figure out why some of Ted Ligety's turns weren't scoring as highly as they expected, and they found that he was beginning to transfer weight earlier in the turn than they had allowed for in their algorithm or had observed in 99.9% of skiers, and that the algorithm needed to evolve to accommodate that.

- The ability to measure data that indicates snow conditions and pitch and incorporate those consideration into the scoring mechanism is an interesting development.

- They talked about their ability to now determine the G force generated in a turn as something that is fun to ski with, and playing around with elements of the user's skiing to see what tweaks result in pulling maximum Gs.

In my experience, this really is an excellent product and just keeps getting better. I'm sure there will be elements of it that doubters continue to pick apart and it probably isn't for everyone. It's clear though that there is a strong correlation between a skier's Ski IQ and their ability as judged by the eye test, and there are a lot of people out there who are better skiers for having used Carv.

 

[Jersey Skier]

I'm sure it's buried somewhere in this thread. How difficult is battery placement if you're already using boot heaters?

 

[Wannabeskibum]

I'm sure it's buried somewhere in this thread. How difficult is battery placement if you're already using boot heaters?

I use HotTronics and the Carv. My Hotronic batteries are mounted on the outside part of the cuff on my power strap and the CARV transmitters are mounted on the center of the cuff on the power strap. They doin't get in my way at all.

 

[Wannabeskibum]

A few of my takeaways from the podcast:

- The Carv guys are really impressive. Clearly very smart, creative and hard working people. What I was most impressed by in this interview was their openness to learning and the evolution in the way they think about applying the metrics they can measure. I had also not given them as much credit as I should have for the passion for the sport and it sounds like (from their conversation with Gellie) they're good skiers also.

- The way they've refined the Ski IQ measurement was really interesting. It seems like they learnt a lot last season in terms of correlating data with observed skiing performance, and tweaked the way the measure elements of the data and how the data is weighted in Ski IQ to match that. An example they gave was that they were trying to figure out why some of Ted Ligety's turns weren't scoring as highly as they expected, and they found that he was beginning to transfer weight earlier in the turn than they had allowed for in their algorithm or had observed in 99.9% of skiers, and that the algorithm needed to evolve to accommodate that.

- The ability to measure data that indicates snow conditions and pitch and incorporate those consideration into the scoring mechanism is an interesting development.

- They talked about their ability to now determine the G force generated in a turn as something that is fun to ski with, and playing around with elements of the user's skiing to see what tweaks result in pulling maximum Gs.

In my experience, this really is an excellent product and just keeps getting better. I'm sure there will be elements of it that doubters continue to pick apart and it probably isn't for everyone. It's clear though that there is a strong correlation between a skier's Ski IQ and their ability as judged by the eye test, and there are a lot of people out there who are better skiers for having used Carv.

Another interesting point that they didn't really get into but was introduced at the tail end of last ski season was the ability to "tag" a run or segment by the type of terrain and snow condition. So for example, you could tag the run as bumps, trees, soft snow, hard snow, ungrooomed etc. The intent is to capture as much data as possible to account for turn variety and snow condition. Just as they needed to refine the alogrithm for how Ted Ligety skis, they are working on refiniing their algorithms to account for "other types of skiing" other than the perfectly carved turn with high edge angles -

 

[Brian Finch]

I was impressed to hear of some of the updates, but I'm really struggling w/ if I renew. Anyone else in the GrimRipper Zone feel similar?

 

[Wannabeskibum]

I was impressed to hear of some of the updates, but I'm really struggling w/ if I renew. Anyone else in the GrimRipper Zone feel similar?

I am not in the Grim Ripper Zone but I since I bought my CARV sensors when they were still a KickStarter project and in exchange for all my great rotary, edge similarity, edge pressure BUT relatively low edge angle data and my constant harping on improving the algorithms to account for different snow and terrain conditions, I am considered a "founding member" and don't have to pay the annual fee.

 

[textrovert]

I was impressed to hear of some of the updates, but I'm really struggling w/ if I renew. Anyone else in the GrimRipper Zone feel similar?

Just barely in the Grim Ripper Ski:IQ both last season and the one before (150). Like @Wannabeskibum I too am grandfathered in without a subscription requirement. The new algorithm change would be something that tempted me back for another season sub if that was something I needed. There was some talk at one time about moguls feedback. That would definitely be interesting to see if they manage to implement something that makes sense.

 

[Jersey Skier]

I use HotTronics and the Carv. My Hotronic batteries are mounted on the outside part of the cuff on my power strap and the CARV transmitters are mounted on the center of the cuff on the power strap. They doin't get in my way at all.

Thanks. It's not officially ski season for me until I start buying new gear.

 

[Jersey Skier]

Before i pull the trigger. There is currently a code for 15% off. Do they tend to offer better than that? Black Friday is only a few weeks away and no real rush around here.