SpauldingSmails

Uh oh, somebody's wrong on the internet again!
Skier
Joined
Jan 27, 2018
Posts
67
Location
Utah
Has anyone gotten a before and after assessment from an instructor while using Carv? Despite all the awesome technical criticism of the product do we know with any certainty that this will make one a better skier?

I'd love to try Carv. It looks to me like if I have an idea of what I am doing, get regular lessons, and apply what Carv tells me (meet the challenges), I'd likely become a better skier (to some limit of the product). But is that true?

Also, it would be cool as a diagnostic tool when I mess with my gear. For example, I could pick a specific challenge set and trail as a standard. Then if I add heel or tongue shims, buckle more or less tightly, change skis, change tune, change boots, et cetera I would know how it effects my skiing (i.e. how it effects the pressure on the bottom of the inside of the boot)...
 
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strix

Terminal Intermediate
Skier
Joined
Dec 25, 2019
Posts
14
Location
Seattle
Been using the Carv for a week. It seems like a great prototype so far. Definitely worth the $200 whatever I spent on it.

It’s a weird mix of unbelievably good tools and, uh, tools with room for improvement. I’ll focus on the good since I think this thread has enough skepticism.

If you are already in pretty deep into carving, the killer feature seems like having it whisper in your ear per turn telling you how you are doing. After a few runs with the edge similarity metric, my turns felt noticeably cleaner. I could fix things from turn to turn. An instructor can’t get you this speed of feedback (let alone film lol). This feature alone more or less justified the cost for me. It also records all day and doesn’t sleep, unlike actual instructors.

Yes, someone could tell you “keep your lower legs more parallel through the turn”, but I’ve heard that advice before (and look, I’ve now told you too!) With the Dulcet Tones of “Samantha” things clicked. It tells you exactly which turns were good and exactly which ones were bad, just in time. In the end it was just repeating 95%+/-3 over and over on most moderate slopes.

There are a bunch of other metrics in the app that are similar that I haven’t played with much. I want to toy with the Yaw Similarity, but the yaw for one insert is straight up wrong (warranty is covering the replacement).

As a plus, the UX is pretty good. I have some quibbles, but mostly the app is just solid. It’s a pretty good ski tracks app for my purposes. A little crash-y, but definitely better than what I had been using.

If you are willing to fight with the installation/hardware and have a few hundred bucks to burn, try this thing out. It’s a bit of a gamble. You might love it, you might hate it. The upside can be pretty high, and the downside is the cost of a day of instruction at a mega-resort. I’m fairly certain it’s taught me more than a random instructor could in a day.

If you are cost conscious, wait for the hardware to stabilize, since they will be able to update the app/firmware, but not the hardware. Or just wait for someone on here to hate it, and just buy it used :P
 

UGASkiDawg

AKA David
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
1,574
Location
CO
I've been skiing with one for about 3 weeks now. I had to sand my boot board to a bit and grind a channel for the cord but no big deal. I can't stand the audio coaching unless I'm using the training mode. When she says "let's go tiger you got this" I want to puke. The actual tips are mostly useful but not sure I know how to apply them to my style yet.

My highest skiIQ so far is 136 but is generally more in the high 1teens or low 120's.

Today I spent 2.5 hours doing nothing but the thousand steps training drill. 10 miles and ~7000 vertical feet of nothing but trying to complete 20 levels of thousand steps drills (made it through 16 levels with a few 3 star ratings ,mostly 1 star rating and some 2 stars scattered in). What I learned...I suck at that drill but got better and finding a place to do them on a Sunday during spring break is hard. I'm going to work through every drill over time.

It so far has let me know that my edge angles suck which I already knew but we'll see if I can improve that using training mode.

I like data and this tool provides it. Whether it improves my skiing remains to be seen.
 

Wannabeskibum

Getting off the lift
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
236
Location
Boston
I've been skiing with one for about 3 weeks now. I had to sand my boot board to a bit and grind a channel for the cord but no big deal. I can't stand the audio coaching unless I'm using the training mode. When she says "let's go tiger you got this" I want to puke. The actual tips are mostly useful but not sure I know how to apply them to my style yet.

My highest skiIQ so far is 136 but is generally more in the high 1teens or low 120's.

Today I spent 2.5 hours doing nothing but the thousand steps training drill. 10 miles and ~7000 vertical feet of nothing but trying to complete 20 levels of thousand steps drills (made it through 16 levels with a few 3 star ratings ,mostly 1 star rating and some 2 stars scattered in). What I learned...I suck at that drill but got better and finding a place to do them on a Sunday during spring break is hard. I'm going to work through every drill over time.

It so far has let me know that my edge angles suck which I already knew but we'll see if I can improve that using training mode.

I like data and this tool provides it. Whether it improves my skiing remains to be seen.
My scores are similar - mid 120’s and as high as 136, edge angles for me are higher on my Experience 88s than on my Enforcer 100s. Haven’t tried the coaching mode and just prefer to free ski and work on edge duration. Highest score that I have seen from anybody this year is 149. I think the top 20% of people are clustered in the mid 120s to mid 130s.
 

Mike King

AKA Habacomike
Instructor
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
2,757
Location
Louisville CO/Aspen Snowmass
I bought one to try out. I used it for 4 days with some problems -- it would score some runs, but not others despite having as much as 3600 feet of descent to score. When I returned from Hawaii, I loaded the beta software, which require setting up the sensors again. In two days since, the devices have not been correctly calibrated despite going through the motion setup both days. The first day, it showed 0 percent similarity in rotation, the second 0 for similarity in edging. I've got a support request into Carv, who earlier had noted that there might be some known hardware problems.

Mike
 

Tim Hodgson

PSIA Level II Alpine
Instructor
Joined
Aug 20, 2016
Posts
508
Location
Kirkwood, California
its a flawed premise that your in balance should be on the ball of your foot. So flawed that I think using this product and trying to keep it from beeping at you could potentially make someone a worse skier.
If have already discussed this in a thread, would you kindly provide the link? If not, would you kindly explain? In this or in a separate thread?
 

mikes781

Putting on skis
Skier
Joined
Mar 30, 2018
Posts
117
Location
NJ
I bought one to try out. I used it for 4 days with some problems -- it would score some runs, but not others despite having as much as 3600 feet of descent to score. When I returned from Hawaii, I loaded the beta software, which require setting up the sensors again. In two days since, the devices have not been correctly calibrated despite going through the motion setup both days. The first day, it showed 0 percent similarity in rotation, the second 0 for similarity in edging. I've got a support request into Carv, who earlier had noted that there might be some known hardware problems.

Mike
I’ve been using the iOS beta for a few weeks now and recently it’s been pretty stable. Saw that a firmware update got released today. Hopefully that straightens out the issues for you.
.
 

Alex @ Carv

Take life one turn at a time
Skier
Joined
Jul 24, 2020
Posts
3
Location
London
Hi guys,

Great to see the discussion here. Just wanted to give you a head's up that I can answer any questions you might have about Carv. We're all a small team of skiers constantly pushing to improve the product, so all feedback welcome. We'd love to hear from you or share extra information you might want.

Any q's just let us know.
Ps for any aftersales stuff please go direct via the website or app (you'll get a faster answer :) )

Re: Mike sorry you had a bad unit and I'm glad the team are getting you a new one
Re: UGASkiDawg - let us know how you get on with your edging. Try the Monitor mode for edge similarity and edge angle once you've tried training - that will give you a live feed of your edging as you ski (its the mode I use most, because the raw data helps me make adjustments live)
Re: Wannabeskibum - SkiIQ is currently normally distributed around 110. Some of the best instructors in the world are breaking 150 on Carv at the moment, but 140 is a good target for us mere mortals
 

Wannabeskibum

Getting off the lift
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
236
Location
Boston
Tell me more, please.

I'm always interested in rolling resistance, especially as a 195 pound guy, with decent power, who "squares off" his rear tire profile depressingly quickly.
Hi guys,

Great to see the discussion here. Just wanted to give you a head's up that I can answer any questions you might have about Carv. We're all a small team of skiers constantly pushing to improve the product, so all feedback welcome. We'd love to hear from you or share extra information you might want.

Any q's just let us know.
Ps for any aftersales stuff please go direct via the website or app (you'll get a faster answer :) )

Re: Mike sorry you had a bad unit and I'm glad the team are getting you a new one
Re: UGASkiDawg - let us know how you get on with your edging. Try the Monitor mode for edge similarity and edge angle once you've tried training - that will give you a live feed of your edging as you ski (its the mode I use most, because the raw data helps me make adjustments live)
Re: Wannabeskibum - SkiIQ is currently normally distributed around 110. Some of the best instructors in the world are breaking 150 on Carv at the moment, but 140 is a good target for us mere mortals
Hi Alex -
Thanks for contributing on this - so being a mere mortal - I guess I am getting there - and I also know what to work on the next time I am on skis. Question for you -- for mere mortals, would you expect edge angle to decrease with increasing ski width - at least that has been my limited experience with perhaps 10 - 15 days of total use between my 88's and my 100's.
 

Alex @ Carv

Take life one turn at a time
Skier
Joined
Jul 24, 2020
Posts
3
Location
London
Hi Alex -
Thanks for contributing on this - so being a mere mortal - I guess I am getting there - and I also know what to work on the next time I am on skis. Question for you -- for mere mortals, would you expect edge angle to decrease with increasing ski width - at least that has been my limited experience with perhaps 10 - 15 days of total use between my 88's and my 100's.
Yep I'd expect so, and we have a few users who have said just that. A thinner ski will make it much easier to get the higher edge angle score. That's because a thinner ski will be easier to roll and that may enable you to get more on edge early and build a higher edge angle as you get to the apex of the turn. A big ski can certainly get on edge too, but it requires better technique to engage the edge early and progressively.

If you're using Carv next season you can give the following two things a try:
  1. Edge angle monitor - it tells you your live edge angle in your ear, every turn (I use this one quite a lot personally). Pick a nice blue and just dial up and down your edge angle on each turn. Use this and play with your outside ski pressure, think about how you enter and exit each turn, and how you roll your ankles to initiate the turn. You'll find that feedback loop from Carv helps you dial in the feeling when you're carving with higher edge angulation.
  2. Carving training - this is more guided, we've basically built a carving game where you get *good* dings each turn if it passes the scoring threshold. We score on edge angle, outside ski pressure, balance, and rotation. As the levels go up, Carv requires higher edging, more loading of the outside ski and for you to maintain an assertive balance throughout. The higher levels are calibrated against instructors so it should keep you tested.
Happy to go into more detail on anything you need

PS. we made this vid last year with Tomas, a level 4 examiner. He's pretty good at carving. The tips are deceptively simple but effective for most skiers - high edge angle is really all about building a stable pressure against the outside ski so that's what he talks about here.

 

SwedishFish

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Dec 19, 2019
Posts
13
Location
Utah
Thinking about getting Carv but I have ZipFit liners and put my liners on first then the shells. I’m worried the carv inserts would complicate things further and it would generate lots of wear and tear on the carv inserts, or that the carv inserts would just fold up when I try putting my foot and liner into my shells.

Has anyone here used carv with ZipFits or other liners you put on first before putting your boots/shell on?
 

Wannabeskibum

Getting off the lift
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
236
Location
Boston
Thinking about getting Carv but I have ZipFit liners and put my liners on first then the shells. I’m worried the carv inserts would complicate things further and it would generate lots of wear and tear on the carv inserts, or that the carv inserts would just fold up when I try putting my foot and liner into my shells.

Has anyone here used carv with ZipFits or other liners you put on first before putting your boots/shell on?
The carv is meant to go under any foot bed that you have in the boot. I have my carvs underneath my molded foot beds. It will reduce the volume of your boot slightly
 

SwedishFish

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Dec 19, 2019
Posts
13
Location
Utah
The carv is meant to go under any foot bed that you have in the boot. I have my carvs underneath my molded foot beds. It will reduce the volume of your boot slightly
On their website they say to install them between your liner and the shell. Since I put my liners on first I’m afraid it’s going to be hard to put my foot (with my liners already on) into my shell without the carv inserts getting all folded up.

Are you saying you put them under your footbeds inside your liner? I’m not sure that is what they recommend.
 

Alex @ Carv

Take life one turn at a time
Skier
Joined
Jul 24, 2020
Posts
3
Location
London
Hi, hopefully I can help here.

We recommend Carv inserts going onto the boot board (under the liner). This is so there is a nice solid base beneath it for a good pressure reading.

In box you’ll get some double-sided sticky tape to keep the insert stuck down, and some gaffa tape (sorry, specialist Carv tape ;) ) to keep the cable against the side of your shell.

SwedishFish - you’re right that with the zipfit liner the inserts may be exposed to more wear and tear as you put your foot in and out. However, a few extra bits of double sided tape, and careful use of the gaffa tape will mean it’s probably not a huge issue as you can secure the unit more thoroughly.

The good news is we have a 2 year warranty which will cover you with replacement parts should anything happen.

In my own skiing, I often take my liners out to dry them. My current Carv inserts are going strong after 6 weeks of skiing over the last year.

Let me know if you’ve got any other questions.
 

Wannabeskibum

Getting off the lift
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
236
Location
Boston
On their website they say to install them between your liner and the shell. Since I put my liners on first I’m afraid it’s going to be hard to put my foot (with my liners already on) into my shell without the carv inserts getting all folded up.

Are you saying you put them under your footbeds inside your liner? I’m not sure that is what they recommend.
No, I do exactly as @Alex @ Carv just suggested
 

SwedishFish

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Dec 19, 2019
Posts
13
Location
Utah
Hi, hopefully I can help here.

We recommend Carv inserts going onto the boot board (under the liner). This is so there is a nice solid base beneath it for a good pressure reading.

In box you’ll get some double-sided sticky tape to keep the insert stuck down, and some gaffa tape (sorry, specialist Carv tape ;) ) to keep the cable against the side of your shell.

SwedishFish - you’re right that with the zipfit liner the inserts may be exposed to more wear and tear as you put your foot in and out. However, a few extra bits of double sided tape, and careful use of the gaffa tape will mean it’s probably not a huge issue as you can secure the unit more thoroughly.

The good news is we have a 2 year warranty which will cover you with replacement parts should anything happen.

In my own skiing, I often take my liners out to dry them. My current Carv inserts are going strong after 6 weeks of skiing over the last year.

Let me know if you’ve got any other questions.
Thank you!
 

TheArchitect

Working to improve all the time
Skier
Joined
Dec 4, 2016
Posts
1,715
Location
Metrowest Boston
Anyone here who has been using a Carv for a season or two want to give us some thoughts on how well it works? I've been intrigued by the concept but not quite sold on it yet.
 

textrovert

Reelin' in the years
Skier
Joined
Aug 21, 2016
Posts
1,117
Location
Incline Village
I ordered one for myself over Thanksgiving. December 7th is when this batch starts shipping, I believe. I bought based on the demos by Tom Gellie (I used to sub his online video lessons last season too).
 

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