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Carving Styles?

athe0007

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Hoping to keep this to some simple questions. I've been watching lesson videos in different styles of carving. Is the difference between Bode Miller and Harald Harb that Bode is doing a crossover and Hararld is doing a crossunder?

Bode is weighting and unweighting and Harald is vertically static...right? Bode's style is speeder and Harald's more generalized for various terrains...right?

It looks like Harald isn't doing pure craves because he uses a tail skid to control speed...right?

This is not intended to endorse one style over another. I'm just trying to see how styles of carving differ. PSIA has their own style different than both Bode and Harald..right?

Thanks in advance.
 

Tlri

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In my mind carving is carving. Slicing a clean arc through the snow with no skid (added rotation or steering of the skis).
Once you rotate the skis you lost a fully carved turn.
Without seeing the video you’re speaking about it’s hard to say what they are doing but the are both capable of turning either way.
 

Josh Matta

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can of worms....

who cares about style, what do you think is the difference in how their skis perform on the snow?
 
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athe0007

athe0007

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can of worms....

who cares about style, what do you think is the difference in how their skis perform on the snow?

Lot's of people care about style, because they have to teach skiing. Personally, I'm an anarchist freeskier. I'm just interested in how other people do it.
 
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athe0007

athe0007

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In my mind carving is carving. Slicing a clean arc through the snow with no skid (added rotation or steering of the skis).
.

I think there are several ways to carve turns. What you're describing is a "pure" carve. There's also a more advanced pure carve with bend and rebound. I basically believe whenever you use your edges to turn that's a carve, as contrasted to a steer or a skid (which can both be used to turn).
 
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Tlri

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I basically believe whenever you use your edges to turn that's a carve

So can you carve a skidded turn?
I know I use my edges and teach people to use their edges in skidded turns.

Come to think of it I guess I taught both my kids to carve when they were 1!!!!
 
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athe0007

athe0007

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So can you carve a skidded turn?
I know I use my edges and teach people to use their edges in skidded turns.

Come to think of it I guess I taught both my kids to carve when they were 1!!!!

If your edge catches and forms a groove during a skid then it's carving. I guess I should have included that as a definition of craving: groovy. Of course a single turn can both be carved and skidded at different points. I'm still working on these ideas.I tend to think of a skid as flat ski, not on edge and an edge that's not in a groove as a slip, but I suppose those aren't the common definitions.

I never taught my kids how to turn, they figured it out on their own at 4 & 5. The 4 year old I had on a leash for the first season because he was a hound for speed and didn't know how to stop very well. The older always liked being in control. They both skied parallel from the beginning.
 
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Tlri

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I have to say this sounds like we’re trying to give every kid a trophy for participation.


Yes, you can skid and carve in different parts of the same turn but when you talk about carved turns most of the time people are talking about linking cleanly carved turns.

If we’re getting to the point of looking for groves in skidded turn I’d say we’re approaching participation trophy talk.

Of course you can cross over or cross under and carve but that’s different than saying if you use your edges to turn you’re carving.
 
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athe0007

athe0007

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I have to say this sounds like we’re trying to give every kid a trophy for participation.


Yes, you can skid and carve in different parts of the same turn but when you talk about carved turns most of the time people are talking about linking cleanly carved turns.

If we’re getting to the point of looking for groves in skidded turn I’d say we’re approaching participation trophy talk.

Of course you can cross over or cross under and carve but that’s different than saying if you use your edges to turn you’re carving.

I don't happen to think that carving is the end all of skiing. Europeans have a different perspective and are still very accepting of steering and flat ski. Do you think what Harald Harb is doing is carving or skidding (in one video he calls it a "Brushed Carved Turn")? I do a bit of everything depending on my music and the terrain.

I think that Harald and Bode are doing something very different. Looks like Bode is doing pure carves and Harald is doing a crave initially and then ending with a tail skid. Harald expressly opposes weighting and unweighting, therefore their styles are radically different. I just found it interesting that what they are each doing differently are great examples of crossover and crossunder.
 
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Rod9301

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I don't happen to think that carving is the end all of skiing. Europeans have a different perspective and are still very accepting of steering and flat ski. Do you think what Harald Harb is doing is carving or skidding? I do a bit of everything depending on my music and the terrain.

I think that Harald and Bode are doing something very different. Looks like Bode is doing pure carves and Harald is doing a crave initially and then ending with a tail skid. Harald expressly opposes weighting and unweighting, therefore their styles are radically different. I just found it interesting that what they each doing differently are great examples of crossover and crossunder.

Hard is advocating flex to release instead of up unweighing. And i guarantee you that Bode is not upweighing, that would be way too slow and there is no racer in recent years that does that.
 
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athe0007

athe0007

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Hard is advocating flex to release instead of up unweighing. And i guarantee you that Bode is not upweighing, that would be way too slow and there is no racer in recent years that does that.

In the video he (or the other guy) expressly says that he's weighting and unweighting.
 

dbostedo

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In the video he (or the other guy) expressly says that he's weighting and unweighting.

Yeah, they do say to move up or stand up to "lighten the skis". Most instructors would prefer to talk about it in different terms these days in my experience... more about long leg/short leg, or flex to release.

As far as the carve versus skid goes... most folks would say that all turns are carves, or they are skidded in some fashion. The "brushed carve" thing is specific to PMTS and are that methods view of what a "proper" skidded turn is (as far as I understand it). They aren't carves in the usual sense at all.
 

Tlri

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Great carving video!

This persons leaving groves in the snow.


Sorry I couldn’t resist.
Think I should go to bed and wake up less sarcastic.
 

JFB

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Just two of the several arrows in the quivers of each. Brings to mind the answer to the question of how much counter is appropriate on that run? A: as much as you need.
 

Josh Matta

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Lot's of people care about style, because they have to teach skiing. Personally, I'm an anarchist freeskier. I'm just interested in how other people do it.
. Yeah if your teaching to look your doing it wrong.....we observe movements yes but in the end all that really matter and should matter is did your movements accomplish what you wanted.
 

Guy in Shorts

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Skiing styles are just inefficiencies that a skier incorporates into their descent is what I have gleamed for previous discussions on this subject. Sticking with this rule until it is proven wrong.
 
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athe0007

athe0007

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Great carving video!

This persons leaving groves in the snow.


Sorry I couldn’t resist.
Think I should go to bed and wake up less sarcastic.

Not really grooves, tracks.
 

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