Cervelo buys Cannondale..

[Primoz]

Once the bikes started to come from over-there-somewhere instead of Bedford, PA, the bikes lost the quality that got them where they were in the bike biz. If I park my '19 'dale next to any of my 80's-90's bikes it's an in your face difference. Now they are just tools or appliances if you like. But that's true of most of their competitors too.

I don't think it's the thing that "bikes started to come from over-there-somewhere" but more different mentality. Before you had products that you bought and it lasted, and companies were proud of that. Now it's about making you buy new product every year or two. Half of my friends here buy new bike every year or at least every second year. Same goes with phones, ski, TV or most of other things. People got used to this, they need to change things every year or two. Not because they would be bad or new thing would have new/better features, but because it has different color and because old one is 1 year old. You can imagine having 1 year old bike??? It's outrages. So with that, there's no need for bikes (or anythig else) last forever. And if they do, they lose clients as instead of selling you 5 bikes, they sold you just one.
As for "from over-there-somewhere" goes... any carbon stuff that comes from "over-there-somewhere" is done 10 times better then anything that comes from "precise hand made by greatest workers of US or EU"

Combined revenue of 2.5 billion euro vs. Tinker's annual stipend of $25,000? I'm missing something there. That's called a "rounding error".

I don't really think $25k means anything, but realistically, how much promotion and sales can 60 years old amateur racer bring to company? In my mind, less then zero. From 30-50 years old people, who are those who pay $15k for bike, noone ever heard of him, and as I wrote in different thread, he never was any big name outside of US, and even in US, I don't think he could fit next to big names of mtb of that time, much less 40 years later. So honestly, I was really surprised to hear that they were still paying him nowadays.

 

[Bill Talbot]

I don't think it's the thing that "bikes started to come from over-there-somewhere" but more different mentality. Before you had products that you bought and it lasted, and companies were proud of that. Now it's about making you buy new product every year or two. Half of my friends here buy new bike every year or at least every second year. Same goes with phones, ski, TV or most of other things. People got used to this, they need to change things every year or two. Not because they would be bad or new thing would have new/better features, but because it has different color and because old one is 1 year old. You can imagine having 1 year old bike??? It's outrages. So with that, there's no need for bikes (or anythig else) last forever. And if they do, they lose clients as instead of selling you 5 bikes, they sold you just one.
As for "from over-there-somewhere" goes... any carbon stuff that comes from "over-there-somewhere" is done 10 times better then anything that comes from "precise hand made by greatest workers of US or EU"

I don't really think $25k means anything, but realistically, how much promotion and sales can 60 years old amateur racer bring to company? In my mind, less then zero. From 30-50 years old people, who are those who pay $15k for bike, noone ever heard of him, and as I wrote in different thread, he never was any big name outside of US, and even in US, I don't think he could fit next to big names of mtb of that time, much less 40 years later. So honestly, I was really surprised to hear that they were still paying him nowadays.

Primoz, you are correct and that is my point. It's the pride in the product as perceived by both the manufacturer and the buyer. When I purchase something (usually something someone else discards) it is because it has real, lasting value to me.
And since I never sell anything my options of which 'time period' I want to pedal or ski or shoot or drive is only expanding.

Remember when folks would engrave their names in their new skis?! They were proud of them and planed to enjoy and use them for a long time. Now they would never do that because it would lower their resale value at the end of this season or the next. Many are indeed creating the throw away society we see everywhere around use.

I've been fighting back for 40 years!!! Couldn't be happier.

 

[Primoz]

@Bill Talbot I know what you mean. I'm not saying I never buy things just because I want new one, not because old one would be bad and/or not usable anymore. But in general I'm still raised to take care of my things and to keep them when they are fine. So for me this mentality is really weird, but I guess I'm just getting old I just saw year or so ago, how weird I really am, when I was talking with some 15 years younger friend about buying new tv. I wanted android TV (for several reasons) and my main issue was nowadays they will just stop putting updates out and I will be stuck with 3 or 4 years old Android which won't support new applications anymore. And I got really weird look and question back "What do you mean with 3 or 4 years old Android??? You will of course change TV way before that!". Uhmm... really??? Ok people change 1000eur worth phones once a year, so I guess it's normal to change 900eur worth TV sooner then in 10 years too. And I guess with that, you really don't need products lasting long. It should survive that year or two of warranty time, and then it will be changed anyway even if it would still be working fine. I can't really adapt to that sort of mentality but it's more and more common nowadays in all areas.

 

[scott43]

We should be careful not to confuse consumerism with continuous improvement. I want to go back to downtube shifters like I want holes in my head..

 

[Primoz]

@scott43 no confusion here I have been riding my 10 years old hardtail for last couple of months, and while it was best ever bike at that time, it sucked so much now, that I almost lost will to ride. And it's nowhere near downtube shifters, just 10 years old components, which are still more or less exactly same as todays... or at least not all that much different. So 'm perfectly fine with progress, new technologies or new features. But let's say bike from 2020 and bike from 2021 are basically exactly same thing with different (or not even that) color design, so there's not much of need someone would need to change 2020 bike for 2021 after he or she made 600km on it

 

[cantunamunch]

We should be careful not to confuse consumerism with continuous improvement. I want to go back to downtube shifters like I want holes in my head..

There's functional improvements and then there's marketing improvements.

And then there's extremely marginal 'functional' improvements that mechanics want like they want holes in their heads and that cause massive engineering and assembly problems and recalls down the line. And so we have integrated headset/cable routing recall threads.

 

[scott43]

Funny I was just talking about integrated/cable routing cockpits. That must make bike fitting a dream... I wonder how many shops just say "yeah the stem length is perfect!" and call it a day. Looks great I guess...but functionally..what are you gaining? PITA..that's what you're gaining!

 

[Primoz]

Maybe 0.5W somewhere. I'm pretty sure slick looks shows in aerodynamics too, but as long as people will be rooting for 1x drivetrain (btw I thought I will never say that, but I actually really like it), all talk about thrown aways watts is useless. If someone is ready to throw away 10+W with 1x drivetrain, then such discussions about little better aerodynamics are completely useless.

 

[Philpug]

We all have our opinion when brands evolve. For me, Cannondale (like Klein) was synonymous with Aluminum frames. Once they went carbon, they were like every other brand. Did that stop me from purchasing a carbon Cannondale? No. Sometimes we need to get over ourselves. I lawys go back to Subaru's evolution. Every time Subaru makes a signifucant change the "loyalists" scream "OMG, they ruined MY Subaru...I wll never buy one again". What happens, sales went up. The loyalists are great at buying used Subarus.

 

[Bill Talbot]

We should be careful not to confuse consumerism with continuous improvement. I want to go back to downtube shifters like I want holes in my head..

I ride them often. Pure friction, retrofriction, racheting and indexed are all good. Also barend friction, racheting and indexed, fantastic.
Brifters are my least liked option by far (thankfully only two bikes).

The idea that everything 'new' is automatically better is pure nonsense. Some may have advantages that you like personally, others not so much.
Applies to all things be it cars, motos, bikes, skis, etc., etc.

 

[Bill Talbot]

We all have our opinion when brands evolve. For me, Cannondale (like Klein) was synonymous with Aluminum frames. Once they went carbon, they were like every other brand. Did that stop me from purchasing a carbon Cannondale? No. Sometimes we need to get over ourselves. I lawys go back to Subaru's evolution. Every time Subaru makes a signifucant change the "loyalists" scream "OMG, they ruined MY Subaru...I wll never buy one again". What happens, sales went up. The loyalists are great at buying used Subarus.

Having carbon in their line up does not mean they 'went carbon' only that they have carbon available if you like. Still plenty of alu options if you like that. But they look like hell now, no attempt at all to finish up all the welds like ALL the Bedford bikes had.