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POB

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Is it worth trying Revelstoke at Christmas time? I can get cheap flights into Calgary and I've always wanted to check out the mountain, but I also want to pick a place where there's likely to be coverage and maybe even some chance of a little fresh powder. We did WH20 and Red Mtn last year and got lucky, but the lack of summer grooming at WH20 was apparent (esp on the Glory Ridge side), so I can imagine it's a bit dicey if the snow doesn't show up early. Is it smarter to just hit the usual Alta/Snowbird?

(thanks as always to @TonyC and @albertanskigirl for their advice on snow and this geography)
 

TonyC

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We know Revelstoke can't handle crowds well based upon many weekend local reports, so I would be suspicious of Christmas. There's not much snowmaking so it's possible you could be up/downloading that gondola to ski Stoke and Ripper, which would add to the choke points.

Whitewater should be the best for early snowfall in that region, but yes I've heard it takes a lot of coverage. Sort of like Snowbird. Targhee and Alta are the safest bets with abundant snowfall and not needing so much coverage. Whistler and then Fernie are probably best in western Canada. Whistler has a pricey reputation for Christmas.

As always the week before Christmas or the week after New Year's is better than the peak week between the two holidays.
 
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Tricia

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@tam to the white courtesy phone.
 

DanoT

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The photo below of "In Tatters" is a black diamond run that was cut a couple of seasons ago at Sun Peaks.
At the time that the photo was taken the upper part had been summer groomed and ready for snow, the lower part of the run was waiting its turn. This is typical of almost all of the runs at Sun Peaks.

With the help of some snowmaking and the extensive summer grooming, Sun Peaks typically opens a week before US Thanksgiving, while the rest of the B.C. interior normally opens at the start of the second week in December. Early season SP can have 30cm-50cm thinner base than other resorts and still have equal to or better coverage.

In the past at the start of a slow year they had 100 runs open on an 18" thick compacted base and skiers are mostly dodging a few weeds, not rocks. It helps that 58% of SP is intermediate, but early season the low angle runs hold snow better and open sooner than steep runs.

Even at Xmas time a 10 minute lineup is considered long and the lift system is pretty good at spreading out the crowds. Most of the approx. 7,000 beds on the mountain will be occupied between Xmas and New Years but compare that to 15,000 beds at Big White and 62,000 beds at Whistler.

The single day skier visit record was a couple days after Xmas one year. 6300 skiers on 4270 acres.

Edit: I forgot to mention that the run pictured below will get planted with grass and eventually look like a vertical meadow in summer.
 

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noncrazycanuck

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another area very similar to Sun Peaks is Panorama
again not a snowy area but they groom summer and winter to allow them to open with not much cover. They also have snow making.

again a big hill, very few crowds, and geared to intermediate, both offer plenty of on hill lodging, even the villages were modeled for the same look. .
if natural snow fall is enough to get their more advanced terrain open by Christmas, Tayton Bowl is quite nice

Panorama is closer to Calgary and within easy daytrip distance of Kicking Horse, Louise, and Fernie should anyone of them get the snow to make the trip worthwhile. Revelstoke both ways would be a long day.

December is not usually prime in that region. If your gambling on conditions and don't mind road tripping Golden is the best place to base out of
 

TonyC

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All that advanced upper terrain at Panorama doesn't have snowmaking. I've skied it in February twice and still had to watch my step. But in 2015 I could tell Panorama did a nice snowmaking/grooming job on the lower mountain. That was the year with a lot of lower elevation rain and Panorama compensated for it better than other places. But for Christmas, not a good choice IMHO.

Sun Peaks strikes me in some ways as the Sun Valley of Canada. Modest natural snowfall, big time snowmaking and grooming, summer grooming to remove larger rocks so not as much coverage required. It's not as steep as Sun Valley overall, so I suspect nearly all marked trails are well covered on a 3 foot base.
 

DanoT

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Sun Peaks gets more natural snow than Sun Valley or Panorama but both have way more snow making than Sun Peaks. Panorama and Sun Peaks are probably the best high speed cruising in Canada, but both can't hold a candle to Sun Valley in that regard.

Just guessing here but with Panorama being fairly close to the million people who live in Calgary, Panorama will likely have more skier visits during the Xmas holidays. Calgary has the greatest per capita number of skiers among major cities in Canada while Kamloops (near SP) with a population of 90k isn't even a major city and only an estimated 6% of Kamloopians are skiers
 

TonyC

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Calgary has the greatest per capita number of skiers among major cities in Canada
Any metro area in North America I'm sure. Calgarians seem to comprise the plurality of skiers as far west as Revelstoke and also at nearly every Canadian snowcat operator I've tried.
 
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noncrazycanuck

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that needed natural snow fall is the same for all hills in BC/Alberta to open thier more interesting areas.
December is never the best month anywhere.
Calgary also spread around the Olympic Park Nakiska Norquay Castle Kimberly but the largest crowds are at Sunshine Lake Louise and Fernie
For metro Vancouver its crowd spreads over the locals Seymour Grouse Cypress Hemlock Valley Baker and Whistler and all four Okanogan hills
Revy/Kicking Horse and Red/Whitewater always take a bit more effort
although with the low Canadian dollar international guests are becoming a bigger percentage of skiers everywhere
 

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Foreign visitors (that includes US) comprise a modest 12% of Canadian skier visits. http://www.vanat.ch/RM-world-report-2017-vanat.pdf p. 141

I've been going to interior BC since 1997 and I still don't get why it's that low. The vast majority of people must really dislike crossing borders.
 

noncrazycanuck

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read that, i wonder where he gets his info from.
One persons experience certainly doesn't create an overall picture but I find it's becoming rare to ride a chair at Whistler with out someone from out of the local area being on it.
 

DanoT

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read that, i wonder where he gets his info from.
One persons experience certainly doesn't create an overall picture but I find it's becoming rare to ride a chair at Whistler with out someone from out of the local area being on it.

I once did opening day at Blackcomb with Whistler still not yet open. There were about 5k people skiing that day and every person I talked to or shared a chair ride with was local from Whistler-no one from Vancouver. It snowed overnight and the next day there were about1k people skiing.
 

TonyC

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One persons experience certainly doesn't create an overall picture but I find it's becoming rare to ride a chair at Whistler with out someone from out of the local area being on it.
Yes, but at every other area in B.C. clientele is probably 95+% Canadian.
 

DanoT

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Yes, but at every other area in B.C. clientele is probably 95+% Canadian.

Since you are a numbers guy Tony, I am going to have to call you on the above.ogwink

You are overlooking the Aussie (and some Kiwi) Invasion. Helped by a weak Canadian and strong US dollar, Canada has become an attractive ski destination.

I like to joke that without Australia, Sun Peaks couldn't operate due to both not enough customers and staff. Aussies and Kiwis under the age of 30 can get a renewable Cdn Visa that allows them to work or travel as much or as little as they want for 2 years.

And once the Xmas Holidays are over and you think all the little kids will be back in school, you only need to show up in January to discover that it is still Summer Holidays in Australia and the place is lousy with rug rats who speak funny.

Big White and Silver Star are even owned by and Aussie.

Also Sun Peaks being the closest B.C. Interior resort to the Coast and only about an hour further drive than going to Whistler for Seattle skiers, means there are a significant number of Washington skiers that ski and/or own real estate at SP.

My own anecdotal experience at Lake Louise is that skiers from the US are outnumbered by Asians, Europeans and South Americans and of course Aussies and Kiwis, combined.

Whistler does by far get the most Americans of any Canadian resort.

Edit: I didn't read the entire report in your post #10 but I did glean one thing: they said that the biggest determining factor in choosing a resort for most vacationers is the size of the resort. Whistler is the biggest in N.A. and ever since Sun Peaks expanded a few years ago to become Canada's second largest word must have got out as they set a new skier visit record 350k in 2016 and broke it in 2017 with 420k.:huh:
 
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Bigtinnie

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Since you are a numbers guy Tony, I am going to have to call you on the above.ogwink

You are overlooking the Aussie (and some Kiwi) Invasion. Helped by a weak Canadian and strong US dollar, Canada has become an attractive ski destination.

I like to joke that without Australia, Sun Peaks couldn't operate due to both not enough customers and staff. Aussies and Kiwis under the age of 30 can get a renewable Cdn Visa that allows they to work or travel as much or as little as they want for 2 years.

And once the Xmas Holidays are over and you think all the little kids will be back in school, you only need to show up in January to discover that it is still Summer Holidays in Australia and the place is lousy with rug rats who speak funny.

Big White and Silver Star are even owned by and Aussie.

Also Sun Peaks being the closest B.C. Interior resort to the Coast and only about an hour further drive than going to Whistler for Seattle skiers, means there are a significant number of Washington skiers that ski and/or own real estate at SP.

My own anecdotal experience at Lake Louise is that skiers from the US are outnumbered by Asians, Europeans and South Americans and of course Aussies and Kiwis, combined.

Whistler does by far get the most Americans of any Canadian resort.

It's feels strange travelling through BC and hearing so many familiar voices. For this reason we've deliberately avoided extended time at Sun Peaks and Big White and Silver Star.
Great for a couple of days on a road trip though.
 

noncrazycanuck

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don't forget the Brits, an endangered species in the travel world up to the late 90's, no shortage of them now.

agree with tonyc's comment. Americians generally are not taking advantage of skiing here despite the value.

Other international guests now out number those from the USA at just about every hill in BC and Alberta.
It seems Americans are becoming reluctant to travel and the rest of the world isn't
some of it may be the result of the new US passport requirements as the percentage of passport holders in the US is relatively small compared to other countries.
then there is the other reason but really is Canada a scary place
 

David Chaus

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Actually, I think Americans are tired of what a hassle it is to get back into America. We are welcomed into Canada at the border, and interrogated when we return to the US.
 

TonyC

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Since you are a numbers guy Tony, I am going to have to call you on the above.ogwink
Perhaps I've fallen into the trap I complain about a lot: extrapolating one's personal experience. My B.C trips are mostly in February, after the Aussie summer holidays are over. And I'm less often at the family places (Big White, Sun Peaks) and more often at Revelstoke, Kicking Horse, Lake Louise, Fernie, Castle. At any rate I've also read a 6% American percentage for interior B.C. Throw in another 6% for other international and you get Vanat's 12%. I've had a few late March/early April trips so thus have seen more Brits than Aussies.

As for those Aussie holidays, I was in Niseko for Australia Day once; you WILL notice that!
Actually, I think Americans are tired of what a hassle it is to get back into America. We are welcomed into Canada at the border, and interrogated when we return to the US.
I've been grilled rather closely by Canadian customs, more when driving in from Spokane but also once in Calgary airport.
 

DanoT

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At Sun Peaks we have a ton of retired Aussies that come for at least a month and many for most or all of the season. Very noticeable mid week. Retired folks from Kamloops typically come skiing 2-4 days a week while retired Aussies are on the mountain 7 days a week.

In the late 90s early 2000s is was Washington skiers that were the first out of province skiers to "discover" Sun Peaks, helped by a Cdn dollar in the .60-.70 range. Back then President's week was the second busiest week of the year at SP after Xmas-NYE week. It was also noticeable that the Washington crowd were better skiers than the average Sun Peaks Gorbie, figured out where the powder is at and were in the trees more.

Nowadays the Presidents week crowd is a mixed bag of holidays for Wash school boards so some get 2 weeks off, some parts of 2 weeks others??
 

David Chaus

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At Sun Peaks we have a ton of retired Aussies that come for at least a month and many for most or all of the season. Very noticeable mid week. Retired folks from Kamloops typically come skiing 2-4 days a week while retired Aussies are on the mountain 7 days a week.

If you want to practice your “Strine” or Aussie accent, any ski resort in BC is a good place to hear a lot of it.
 

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