Classic Techniques to Remind us where we came from, how far we have come

[James]

Takao Maruyama rotates the hips into the turn, see post 89. The opposite of counter.

 

[geepers]

Skiing on ice requires being balance on the active ski or skis + good edge prep + being a lot more subtle with your edges IMHO.

Angulation & counter are motor action to counteract turning forces - to get balanced. Not a primary way to initiate or drive a turn but rather to mostly support the turn. Why when making MR to LR turns there is more angulation than in SR turns.... In SR its mostly foot/knee action with little to no angulation (yeah maybe in the knees) when running a flush in the gates.
Same for lengthening the outside ski, to allow it to take a higher load, to counterbalance building turning forces as well as a way to increase edge angle (along with the use of inclination).

Back to my original observation/question - has anyone experimented with staying square at the top of the turn (while flipping to the new edge) a little longer then starting counter jut prior to approaching the apex?
It seems to increase hook up at the top of the turn.
Yeah stay square too long and it will over rotate you.

Various folk are working on staying square to the skis throughout.

TL;DW
Natural skiing. Joints and muscles without tension. Loose and smooth. Everything follows the ski tips. No counter-rotation, no need to counter-balance. because the body will find its own balance. Less physical effort for the skier - forces do the work.

 

[JESinstr]

^^^^^

Various folk are working on staying square to the skis throughout.

TL;DW
Natural skiing. Joints and muscles without tension. Loose and smooth. Everything follows the ski tips. No counter-rotation, no need to counter-balance. because the body will find its own balance. Less physical effort for the skier - forces do the work.

Great Video. I would submit that the wild card in all of this is velocity. Low velocity and the skier can remain square. That all changes as velocity AKA forces increase.

BTW I just love how when the Italians reach a critical velocity, they actually turn their head and look where they want to go.

 

[RoninSkier]

Great legends who raced on the old straight skis, demonstrating and reflecting on transition to the new shaped skis.

 

[James]

I like the “ I can never do 10 perfect turns in a row” - Steve Mahre
60% he can live with, 20% are really good, and 20% are terrible

 

[RoninSkier]

I like the “ I can never do 10 perfect turns in a row” - Steve Mahre
60% he can live with, 20% are really good, and 20% are terrible

True self awareness and humility of a great one.

Skiing is like moving meditation, the more you ski with intent and thought (without over baking it per Deb Armstrong) the more you get 'centered' in all kinds of ways, great for both physical and mental health.

As well as the endorphin, sensory or whatever high one gets from this beautiful sport.

 

[RoninSkier]

Great legends who raced on the old straight skis, demonstrating and reflecting on transition to the new shaped skis.

Listen to the Mahre brothers reveal of the origin & usefulness of the white pass drill (impact on flipping & getting early weight transfer to the new outside foot) and change in ski technique due to the shaped skis - very interesting.

We have to always evaluate the usefulness of a drill for what and who and what terrain.
White pass vs garlands vs one footed skiing vs pivts slips with edge sets vs something else. What skill set, motor function needs improving, practice and do we need it - for both us and students/athletes.

 

[Roundturns]

Enjoyed that video immensely. The Mahres are my all time skiing heroes. Actually met them a couple times. Couldn’t have been more approachable and nice.

 

[geepers]

Listen to the Mahre brothers reveal of the origin & usefulness of the white pass drill (impact on flipping & getting early weight transfer to the new outside foot) and change in ski technique due to the shaped skis - very interesting.

We have to always evaluate the usefulness of a drill for what and who and what terrain.
White pass vs garlands vs one footed skiing vs pivts slips with edge sets vs something else. What skill set, motor function needs improving, practice and do we need it - for both us and students/athletes.

White pass turns - the way Guy Heatherington or NZSIA does 'em - are an important step in developing of my own skiing. So despite the comments of the Mahre bros I'm not going to stop utilising them.

Been discussed here before.

What Purpose(s) do(es) a White Pass Turn Serve?

Ok, the Shiffrin thread has morphed into a zillion topics, so let's try to bring a theme to this thread: what do you use a White Pass turn drill to accomplish? What ski and body performance are you looking for? @geepers posted this great video from the NZSIA with their thoughts about what a...

www.skitalk.com

Reckon your point re where and when to use WP (or any drill) is spot on.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Getting back the thread title, sort of...

 

[LiquidFeet]

The skiers in this retro race have a little better grip on their "classic technique."

 

[Tony Storaro]

The skiers in this retro race have a little better grip on their "classic technique."

LOL what in the blue hell is that!?!

 

[cantunamunch]

LOL what in the blue hell is that!?!

What, you don't go LARPing over Easter hols?

 

[LiquidFeet]

LOL what in the blue hell is that!?!

A bunch of people in the spring having tons of fun racing through tight gates using retro ski gear - that most of them cannot handle. Soft leather boots, wooden skis, ancient bindings, authentic costumes (and creative alternatives). Spectators in retro clothing with alcohol and cow bells.

 

[cantunamunch]

Specifically, Easter - hence the giant painted egg - and the title of the video.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Thank you Google Translate.

 

[HardDaysNight]

Various folk are working on staying square to the skis throughout.

TL;DW
Natural skiing. Joints and muscles without tension. Loose and smooth. Everything follows the ski tips. No counter-rotation, no need to counter-balance. because the body will find its own balance. Less physical effort for the skier - forces do the work.

Watching this I thought: how innovative; amazing that no-one previously thought of skiing as a mono body with everything just following the skis around like a statue. Wait until, after many decades of working on the wrong things, those idiots on the World Cup see this! Then I remembered that every low intermediate skier basically does exactly this. Until he develops some degree of upper-lower body separation which moves his skiing to a higher level. Sort of like the demonstrators in this video do when they start making short turns and the following crap disappears!

 

[geepers]

Great Video. I would submit that the wild card in all of this is velocity. Low velocity and the skier can remain square. That all changes as velocity AKA forces increase.

The guy at about the 3 minute mark is making pretty good wide turns. So guess it depends on what you mean by low /high velocity. Thoughts of "natural skiing" don't seem to limit his ability to turn it on when he wants.

Watching this I thought: how innovative; amazing that no-one previously thought of skiing as a mono body with everything just following the skis around like a statue. Wait until, after many decades of working on the wrong things, those idiots on the World Cup see this! Then I remembered that every low intermediate skier basically does exactly this. Until he develops some degree of upper-lower body separation which moves his skiing to a higher level. Sort of like the demonstrators in this video do when they start making short turns and the following crap disappears!

Guess we got different things out of that very short insight into their system. But it seems both of us re-affirmed our world view of what constitutes good skiing.

 

[JESinstr]

The guy at about the 3 minute mark is making pretty good wide turns. So guess it depends on what you mean by low /high velocity. Thoughts of "natural skiing" don't seem to limit his ability to turn it on when he wants.

Don't quite get what point you are trying to make. Can you elaborate in more detail? Thanks

 

[geepers]

Don't quite get what point you are trying to make. Can you elaborate in more detail? Thanks

Sorry for slow reply - dropped off the alerts list....

The Tech Director for San Marino is Stefano Belingheri - who was discussed elsewhere. From his Projected Productions vid he clearly thinks about staying square to the skis and that seems (MHO) evident in the San Marino demo team turns in the Interski clip all the way from the level 2 wedge turns to Stefano's level 7 turns starting 3:00. So, presumably, staying square is part of their thinking.

But, as you and others have pointed out, at some point it is not possible to remain perfectly square to the skis (e.g. stivots and higher tempo short turns). Apparently in those cases the body finds it's own balance - according to their system. My observation is that whatever they are thinking it doesn't seem to have a detrimental effect when they turn it up to level 11 (or whatever level it is) for those turns in the pista Matteo Nana vid.