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Classic Techniques to Remind us where we came from, how far we have come

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RoninSkier

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6:50 Toni Sailer going uphill
Imagine these guys skiing like this with boots with no cuffs - masters of pure ballance, finesse.
Now they had SOFT flexing boots.

Wunderbar! Great find James!

My first boots were like theirs - hand me down leather/plastic Koflachs with laces + cable buckles.
 
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RoninSkier

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The synergistic interaction between equipment and technique pioneers then hill development & grooming drove modern ski technique.

Boots -
Not a big Lange fan but it was the pioneer. I replaced my hand me down Koflachs with hand me down Lange Banshees in the late 70s to race, then later the brutal Lange Phantoms. A time line of boot development - Lange specific

 
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RoninSkier

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The synergistic interaction between equipment and technique pioneers then hill development & grooming drove modern ski technique.

Skis - Steel Edges - Composite construction - then Shaped
A long time Rossi fan (first skis were hand me down Strato 102s then 105s) history of ski development -
Steel edges

Composite & other developments per Rossi

Bode Miller validates the new 'silly' shaped skis by winning the 96 Jr Olympics
Then everyone wants to race and ski shaped skis
 
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RoninSkier

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Actually, Tony sailer skis pretty much the way wc skiers ski today, perhaps more exaggerated, because of his equipment.

Counter, angulation.
You can see how the Austrian greats like Sailer Berger & Gugganig have influenced the Japanese style development and Japanese greats like Maruyama

Tried to attend Sailers clinics at Whistler in the 70s, parents refused to pay.



 
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RoninSkier

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Other greats - Wayne Wong, a Cdn hot dogger along with Johnny Johnson & Michel Daigle pioneered modern free style in Canada. One of my examiners, Heather Bilodeau, a CSIA/CSCF purist, referred to hog doggers as weiners.
I briefly met Wayne on the hill on Seymour Mtn Vancouver Canada. He skied up to us (we smuggly thought we were the best on the mtn) skiing in blistering ultra SR turns, commented 'you guys should get shorter skis', then skied away.

Another great oriental pioneer skier Hank Kashiwa who raced the early days of the pro head to head Killy Challenge circuit

 

JESinstr

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^^^^^^
This should put to rest the assertion by some that the inside knee and ski plays a key role in leading us into the new turn.
 

James

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^^^^^^
This should put to rest the assertion by some that the inside knee and ski plays a key role in leading us into the new turn.
Of course it does. It gets there first. Or, it is blocking and in the way.
Just like in running and changing direction. It leads, but the outside is the power and does the work. Balance should be transferred to what will become the outside early.

What in the videos leads you to your statement?
 

dan ross

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Stenmark actually stepped directly to the new edge, so not really an alignment A frame, but a deliberate movement to get to the new outside ski earlier in the turn than any of his contemporaries. The rest was history until the other day. :)
He got the edge step from Thoni. That was a big deal in the early 70’s. After Stenmark, Tomba ( coached by Thoni)
took it a “ step” further. ( pun intended). Joubert was great and some of his fundamental analytics are still relevant-inside ski is a fulcrum to leverage the outside ski,etc.
Before we get ahead of ourselves, just a reminder that everything we are doing now will be looked at quaintly before you know it. We all stand on the shoulders of those who came before us.
 

dan ross

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Thanks for posting those videos. I found the moguls on the first and second to be the most interesting. The upper body in both is similar but the turn shape and line , much different ( and, correspondingly, the moguls themselves)
However, I “understand “ the first video intuitively because that was the gold standard when I was coming up. Skiing bumps on todays skis and bumps has taken some getting used to and the second video provides a good example. Can’t wait to take out my new hips for a test drive in the bumps -I’m expecting a mixed bag. :rolleyes: :D
 

markojp

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He got the edge step from Thoni. That was a big deal in the early 70’s. After Stenmark, Tomba ( coached by Thoni)
took it a “ step” further. ( pun intended). Joubert was great and some of his fundamental analytics are still relevant-inside ski is a fulcrum to leverage the outside ski,etc.
Before we get ahead of ourselves, just a reminder that everything we are doing now will be looked at quaintly before you know it. We all stand on the shoulders of those who came before us.
Thoeni stepped up onto the outside edge of the new outside ski. Stenmark went straight to the inside edge. If i recall, it was documented in Rudi Bear's (sp?) book Pianta Su. Cool old stuff! We spents loads of time trying to dial it in when we were kids.
 

dan ross

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Thoeni stepped up onto the outside edge of the new outside ski. Stenmark went straight to the inside edge. If i recall, it was documented in Rudi Bear's (sp?) book Pianta Su. Cool old stuff! We spents loads of time trying to dial it in when we were kids.
We all tried to dial it in too back then but it was much harder to do than today with you tube, etc. I remember an old interview with Stenmark where he talked about how he was intrigued by Thoni/Thoeni ( I’ve seen it spelled both ways on FIS sheets) and his technique. Gustavo then coached on the Italian National team where his star was Tomba. Somewhere I think have an article from back in the day that dissects Gustavo’s somewhat controversial turn step by step. I’ll post it if I find it.
 

dan ross

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As promised,
9EFB067B-5497-4511-98DA-5ADB0D27C686.jpeg
Here you go- Thoeni/Stenmark
 

dan ross

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An excerpt from a good article by Brooks Dodge that encapsulates the difference in words. Thoeni transferred from outside to inside to “ accelerate “. That transfer is what we called the “ step”. Easier said than done . Much. :D
A19DD551-0AD7-4C86-8737-5EC6434ADC9F.jpeg
 

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