Cliffed Out

[Nathanvg]

I ran across the below video of a skier getting stuck on top of a cliff with unknown, too big and/or dangerous landings. The video isn't of me but I have gotten myself into similar situations every 3-5 years or so. As I have gotten older, I've become more risk adverse but I also still love to ski the steeps that are often near these cliffs. I'm curious how others handle these risks. I have a risk avoidance philosophy but I'll share later to avoid biasing the responses. (I'm also hoping to improve that philosophy)

 

[Cheizz]

How about the 'know where you go' approach? I.e. research the slope you want to ski, know where the cliffs are (so where NOT to go if you want to avoid them). In terms of avalanche safety, it is wise to know the slope and route anyway...
Going into the trees and skiing a slope without any research or local knowledge (in the group) doesn't appear very wise to me.

 

[François Pugh]

I don't have much off-piste experience, but I've always wanted to know what I'm getting into, always had a view of the line from below and if possible from above. From above is tricky, you could end up going over along with the over-hanging snow that's just waiting for you to get it to go over.

One line I couldn't see the middle of turned out to have large chunks of snow and other debris in the middle third (where the slope leveled off a bit) that had fallen down the chute before me, maybe about a week before I got there.

 

[slow-line-fast]

Definitely scope the line - maps, views from other angles, local knowledge, whatever is possible. A little more ‘exploring’ is possible with touring skis and skins in your pack - depending on what you descend, you can skin back up if needed. But without that, wallowing on foot in deep snow up a steep slope is very tiring and slow, calling for more conservative explorations.

And of course the group, skills, fitness, equipment…. oneself included….

 

[noncrazycanuck]

ducking a rope at Whistler if you don't know exactly what is beyond is never a good idea.

my philosophy is you'll always get more turns in than when your wasting time hunting for them.

 

[KingGrump]

First thing for resort skiing is "DO NOT DUCK ROPES."

Not so much for the safety of the skier involved but for the well being of the ski patrollers. It's much easier to ski a run solo than having to haul a loaded sled out of the same terrain.
Taos ski patrol will close a run if they can not safely evacuate a #250 skier on a sled from the run.

Think if you (generic) get hurt, how will they evacuate you.
Given enough time, evacuation becomes recovery.

 

[ZionPow]

Consult the ski patrol before you go. The open areas are checked and swept every day. Patrol will be aware of the conditions in the area you intend to ski and they may give you suggested routes that may have better conditions and be safer. Conditions change daily and sometimes hourly depending on the weather. Patrol may even offer to show you a route if they are not too busy.

 

[Primoz]

I agree with @Cheizz. Check first where you are going. Following tracks is not the way to go, unless you are one of top guys on FWT who will jump anything anyone else could possibly jump. Unfortunately I'm not, so I consider that those guys making those tracks might be better at jumping things that I am. This brings you to, check first where you are going. I do my homework day before I go to some new place I don't know anything about, checking maps and gradients so that I know at least somehow what's rideable and what would require jumping cliffs. Then if it's about jumping cliffs, I first check from other sides, how it really looks in real life, and if it's possible for me to jump, I go that way, otherwise I avoid that area, regardless of how many tracks lead into that.
I'm not saying anything about ducking ropes. Over here, it's nothing bad and noone will give you problems with that, but then again, over here it's your own responsibility. I have no idea how it's in US, but from what I read until now, things are different. So I will stay away from "ducking rope" thing here, as I'm sure it means something completely different for you guys on other side of ocean, as it does for us on this side

 

[Rod9301]

Cliffs, unless they are huge, will not show on a topo map.

And remember, no matter how hard it is to climb back up, down climbing is a lot harder, and landing in rocks even worse.

If you're in a ski resort, unless it's in the Alps, you will not have to climb back any great distance.

Even if it's 50 degrees and deep powder, you can climb back. I do it often in the Backcountry when i climb a couloir to ski it.

 

[François Pugh]

If you don't want to waste time and effort climbing back up, please consider how much more effort, time and pain will be involved dragging yourself out (up or down) with a couple of broken legs.

 

[Primoz]

@Rod9301 it depends on someone's abilities. For me those things that I rather not jump, are visible on maps. But I agree.... if you don't feel really comfortable, go back up. That's why I have skins in my backpack even when I go powder skiing on lifts. I normally don't need them, but sometiems it can be easier and faster to get back to track with skins, then pushing and climbing through the trees in waist deep snow.
And I agree with both of you, that climbing back up is way way easier (and healthier) then climbing down some rocks/cliffs with skis in hand and in skiboots.

 

[raisingarizona]

ducking a rope at Whistler if you don't know exactly what is beyond is never a good idea.

my philosophy is you'll always get more turns in than when your wasting time hunting for them.

It’s down right stupid.

Always know your line, if you don’t know, don’t go.

 

[raisingarizona]

First thing for resort skiing is "DO NOT DUCK ROPES."

Not so much for the safety of the skier involved but for the well being of the ski patrollers. It's much easier to ski a run solo than having to haul a loaded sled out of the same terrain.
Taos ski patrol will close a run if they can not safely evacuate a #250 skier on a sled from the run.

Think if you (generic) get hurt, how will they evacuate you.
Given enough time, evacuation becomes recovery.

I use the same sort of thinking for touring.

I think it’s important to think about how your decisions and behavior may impact others. From your touring partners to the local SARS group, patrol etc. There seems to be a real lack of contemplating personal behavior and it’s impacts on others in today’s world. It’s extremely selfish really.

 

[Wilhelmson]

I was with a guy who lived at Alta. He went left and I went right. The sketchy part were the rocky stepping stones. The big jump wasn't too bad.

In the East a lot of times its scraped off steep icy rocks, so you have to decide if you want to wreck your skis and maybe your body or climb back.

 

[Crank]

Said above, reiterated here, "Know before you go."

I have scoped out side country at more than one ski area by looking at google earth views.

I have been cliffed out and then just spent some time traversing, climbing up and over a bit, etc. to find a way around and down.

 

[crgildart]

All this.. and don't follow sucker tracks.. Tracks don't mean no air required..

 

[Guy in Shorts]

Guy was pissed one day when he followed our sucker tracks off Pico into the side country. Wasn't our fault he didn't have ride waiting at the end.

 

[Nathanvg]

Lots of good tips. To summarize tips so far:

1. Use topo or other maps to identify risks
2. Visually inspect line from below
3. Check with patrol
4. Climb out when in doubt

1-3 are great ways to avoid undesired terrain but they only help so much. For example, Rod is spot on:

Cliffs, unless they are huge, will not show on a topo map.

So my philosophy is to reduce risk with 1-3 and #4 is where the key decisions occur. Sometimes I climb out but I also push it sometimes and the vast majority of the time it works out fine.

At some point pushing it can get bad where climbing up is risky but leaping is too. That's what I'd like to do a better job of avoiding. In the video, the skier gets into this situation at about 8:30. The pitch is steep, snow limited and cliff below. The chance of falling while climbing is significant. Thankfully for the skier in the video, there was a way to ski out.

So one question to the group, at what point in the video would you have turned around? (assume the area was not roped off since I agree that's the best answer in this particular situation) It's often a hard decision because you know climbing is a big effort, you know climbing is better than getting hurt but you don't know what exactly is below. Skiing "a little" farther almost always solves the problem but it's a gamble of either more climbing or injury risk.

 

[Ecimmortal]

All this.. and don't follow sucker tracks.. Tracks don't mean no air required..

I followed some tracks ONCE. They ended up being Sammy Carlson's tracks. I was able to traverse out fortunately.

 

[Seldomski]

And another one:

Seems relevant -- you could be following Marcus' tracks.