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Clipless vs flat pedals on a MTB

martyg

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For efficiencies look no further than studies by Kram and Straw, and Burns and Kram.

As fars as magnets go, I have a magnet net caddy on my fly fishing pack. If it gets anywhere near the ground it picks up every particle of dirt that has the slights bit of iron in it. those magnets are then contaminated, and I have to wipe them off.
 

cantunamunch

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. If it gets anywhere near the ground it picks up every particle of dirt that has the slights bit of iron in it. those magnets are then contaminated, and I have to wipe them off.

That's kinda what I'm worried about. Now imagine trying to use mag pedals in a nice sloppy CX.
 

Tom K.

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Definitely like the thin stack height of XTR vs. XT. I also always max out the spring tension

Exactly the same here. It has driven me back to XT which Shimano says has the same spring tension, but I find it to be higher than the XTRs.
 

Alexzn

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Always rode clips on my road bike, so,when I got my MTB recently I put on shimano XTRs. After a broken rib I switched to flats (RaceFace Atlas) in a hurry. Over 90% of MTB riders in Tahoe run flats. And like the flat shoes way more than clip shoes,
 

Tricia

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@Tricia switched to flats before I did and her reasonings (which she might expand on herself) mirrored a good amount of mine. Yes, there is a loss of Nth efficiency but IMHO, and on our case, there was more of a loss if you are riding atop of a clipless and not clipped in and even more if you have head games going on.
After my 2011 crash I had big head games and found myself riding with my clipless set up unclipped, which was far less efficient than the flats and spiked pedals.

As Phil said, YMMV.
My head games are far less of an issue but I still get them from time to time in super technical terrain.

Keeping in mind, that I started to ride with the clippless set up when I lived in Michigan and the terrain where I currently live is extremely different and far more technical.
My current set up is OneUp Aluminum and FiveTen shoes.

Screen Shot 2022-08-08 at 8.49.38 AM.png
 

Pajarito-bred

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I'll second the recommendation for the Avery RemTech pedals!
How about magnets?

I've always run flats, and recently changed to the Hustle REMtech Avery Pedals. They're flat petals with a big magnet, and the "cleat" is a metal plate. I've been liking them so far, better contact than flat petals but still easy to get out of. The one slightly annoying thing is getting your foot in the right spot. The metal plate can be attracted by the magnet even without being perfectly aligned, so sometimes I have to lift up my foot to try again or wiggle it around. They also have two different lengths of pins that allows you to adjust the float.
I ordered mine in January, after looking at flat pedals to upgrade from my old Shimano SPD's for my new bike, but wary of potential pin-to-shin action. Takes a few rides to get used to the feel, but I think they have the best of both both the clip-less and flat-pedal features. I have Speedplay pedals on my road bike, the feel is similar-- solidly clamped, but plenty of play and easy to release.


processed-400bb5be-9e56-48ce-b164-762bdbe1eea5_kJvxMpjH.jpeg processed-55093c55-5a09-4300-a069-3685f12b6c9c_BTK3KaSy.jpeg processed-cc34d8b4-c337-47f8-97d5-c06be16d9a6d_XRQyXv5h.jpeg

They aren't for weight weenies, as the rare-earth magnets are a bit heavy. So far I haven't had any issues releasing, altho it takes a bit of practice to get your foot in the right spot, still easier to "clip in" when starting out. Just a big chunk of steel, inset in place of the SPD tab on each shoe. I haven't fiddled with the longer pins yet, and haven't had any issues with picking up stray nails or bolts.

The magnets are quite beefy, if you just put the empty shoe on the pedal, it takes a bit of effort to twist it out by hand. (not as much effort as needed to release an empty boot clamped in a ski binding, but plenty)
It's been too stinking' hot in the desert, but plenty of great trails on the mesa above the ski area. There's plenty of rocky, rooty trail segments where being "clamped in" is super-important.
 

ScottB

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From my experience, Shimano SPDs were the best for clicking in/out…I really liked the solid “click” to know you were in. I liked Crank Brothers Mallet E pedals for the actual riding though. The extra platform gave a more solid connection than the XT (no platform) pedals I used previously. Shimano DH Saint pedals might be the best of both worlds, and if I still rode clipped in I’d be tempted to try them.

I had always ridden flats on my downhill bike/lift service, and started using them trail riding this year…I still miss being clipped in on some climbs, but over all I think riding flats has improved my riding quite a bit.

It seems a bit counterintuitive, but the bigger the spikes on your flats, the less you’ll slip off and get a pedal to the shin. I’ve been using Canfield Crampons for awhile now and love them. I will say, their pins are a bit intimidating…

View attachment 174827
I’ve tried other flats, and just haven’t found anything even close to giving me the grip that these provide.

I have been using the Canfield Crampons and they work great with 5/10's. Highly recommend them.

IMG_20150721_194255155_HDR.jpg
 

snwbrdr

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For cross country riding, I learned on Crank Brothers Candy pedals. 4-sided entry, thanks to a torsion spring design. But the brass cleat... it's brass, so it's not really durable. I think clipless helps when you're riding over logs on the trails.
 

Crank

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I know people can, but, I know I could never bunny hop without clipless.
 

Crank

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I am fine with using my pedals to pull the back wheel up. I am fine with using the same clipless pedals I have had for 20+ years.

Thank you for your concern. Please don't try to teach this old dog new tricks. I find myself "enjoying" technical terrain less as I get older and I am fine with that. I have always mountain biked for 2 reasons: exercise and getting out into the woods. Terminal intermediate here with no desire to improve my skills.
 

Bill Talbot

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I am fine with using my pedals to pull the back wheel up. I am fine with using the same clipless pedals I have had for 20+ years.

Thank you for your concern. Please don't try to teach this old dog new tricks. I find myself "enjoying" technical terrain less as I get older and I am fine with that. I have always mountain biked for 2 reasons: exercise and getting out into the woods. Terminal intermediate here with no desire to improve my skills.
Yes indeed.
Less Cross Stuntry and more Cross Country
 

Tom K.

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I find myself "enjoying" technical terrain less as I get older and I am fine with that.

I still love the uphill and mostly-level tech stuff at 63, but I have backed WAY off on the tech stuff that tilts downhill!
 

Tony S

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Anyone who has been riding for a while on the east coast knows what I'm talking about. A typical popular trail - and therefore the way people approach riding on that trail - has changed a LOT in the last decade. And along with that change has come a change in attitudes and practices around pedals.

Twenty years ago when I started MTB riding (at age 40), cross country riding was basically what there was here. It was what everyone did, and it was truly cross country. Meaning, you rode from point A to point B and back. Maybe it was a big loop, sure, but what you were NOT doing was sessioning a short section of trail with a bunch of fun man-made features, trying to get more air, more propulsion out of that berm, or whatever. No. What you were doing was riding the rough trails of the time, always trying to extend the ride without having to double-back or repeat sections.

And what were those trails like? They were rocky, rooty, wet, purpose-built singletrack. At least if you were on a good trail. The not-good trails were rocky, rooty, wet snowmobile trails or powerline corridors rife with impassable swamps and beaver dams. Riding those trails was the cycling equivalent of Humphrey Bogart wading through the Congolese marshes in The African Queen, emerging covered with leeches. A great ride was all about keeping on keeping on, the longer and more technical the climbs, the better. It was about endurance and fortitude. Descents were sometimes a hoot, often challenging, and almost never contained any meaningful airs or manmade features. At most there would be a 2x12 that some kid had propped up on a stump, here today, gone tomorrow, given wind, water, and wear from riding. Same with a crude stile over a fieldstone wall that someone built from boulders, or out of quickly rotting logs to help riders over a large downed tree.

Trail building and riding were battles against time: The first year, the trail was soft and slow with evergreen duff, but promising. The next year and the year after that, heaven. Years four and five were still good, but the roots were emerging and the the flow was harder to find. After ten years, forget it. Build a new trail somewhere else, because this one was now nothing but a latticework of roots and rocks.

Ten or twelve years ago a pair of trail studs from IMBA in Colorado came east to teach us how to build durable trails properly, to get out of this cycle. They had a bunch of local volunteers to help. After a whole week they had only built a half mile of trail. Their shtick was that you had to get down to the "mineral layer" by cutting through all the roots. They were clueless about our geology and ecosystem. Finally they had to admit, "You guys really have an awful lot of trees here." It just wasn't feasible.

Then, sometime around six or eight years ago, something changed. I'm not actually sure what it was. Money? Know-how? Willpower? Buy-in of landowners? Dunno. But suddenly machine built trails were sprouting up here and there. And they were built partly by ADDING material OVER the roots. Ah. So THAT's the secret.

The new trails had big berms and they had tabletops and opportunities for serious air with an actual landing zone free of trees and ledges. In short, they were smooth, and they were fun, and they were meant primarily to be ridden in the downhill direction. Often there was an accompanying "climbing trail" associated, laid out with switchbacks that made the climb just an easy slog, not the semi-terrifying technically challenging scramble, requiring gumption and skill, that always used to be the toll you had to pay for any significant free ride. (The gumption and skill was now reserved for the "features" on the descents.)

Even riders' clothing has changed. 20 years ago the local MTB crowd was indistinguishable from their roadie buddies except for the mud on their clothes and the lugs on the bottoms of their shoes.

Fast-forward to 2022 and everyone is riding the new "flow" trails. Their kits scream "mountain biker." Because hours toiling literally in the saddle are not a thing anymore. And they have flat pedals. Because you don't have to be efficient if you're sessioning, with the associated numerous and prolonged tea parties that we always used to poo-poo. But you DO need the flexibility of instant-off, and the stability of a big platform.

So it all makes sense to me. I just don't fit in, is all. For me, riding is about pedaling, not about jumping. It's the skier / snowboarder thing- making turns vs. finding "hits." This is not a value judgment; it's just what it is.

@aveski ... sanity check?
 
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crosscountry

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20 years ago? That makes it 2002. I don't know.

I started in 1992-3'ish. No purpose build mtb trails. We were either poaching hiking trails, or hiking trails that hasn't gotten around to put up a no-bike sign. Flow? What flow? Rocks? Roots? Of course! Even logs in the middle of the trail. Learn to hop logs in short order. That's FLOW for me...

Everybody rides clipped in. But you can tell we're not roadies because we have baggy shorts. Don't ask me why. There's no advantage over tight fitting shorts. Just fashion, I think.

So, when purpose build trails started to get build, I must admit I totally love it! There is...FLOW!

Yes, I saw everything you wrote since. Trails, while purpose build, had slowly changed character. They got more and more technical. Full suspension got affordable and popular. 9'ers came to the scene. Obstacles that used to be nearly impassible except for the expert riders are all of a sudden easily rolled by newbies on their big tired full suspension 9'ers.

Oh yeah, roadies come to races and kick our butt spinning up the switchbacks. You can never make up the time however good you're in technical descend.

Now, the "expert trail" had drops so big you can kill yourself if you mess up! I'm not going near those things. No!

It's the same as I wrote in the "Is skiing sport or entertainment" thread. When equipment and skill advanced to a certain level, it takes bigger and bigger risk to generate the same adrenaline rush. But with bigger risk, so does consequence if one misses. I'm not willing to risk it any more. So these days, I don't really care about "technical" any more. Give me semi-smooth flow with only occasional rocks & roots. Road ride in the woods, I call it.

Disclaimer: I still have a functioning full suspension bike with flat pedal on it, complete with shin/knee/elbow guards in a bag hung on the handlebar. But I've only taken it out maybe at most 10 times in the past 3-4 years.
 

Bill Talbot

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Nov 9, 2015
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Anyone who has been riding for a while on the east coast knows what I'm talking about. A typical popular trail - and therefore the way people approach riding on that trail - has changed a LOT in the last decade. And along with that change has come a change in attitudes and practices around pedals.

Twenty years ago when I started MTB riding (at age 40), cross country riding was basically what there was here. It was what everyone did, and it was truly cross country. Meaning, you rode from point A to point B and back. Maybe it was a big loop, sure, but what you were NOT doing was sessioning a short section of trail with a bunch of fun man-made features, trying to get more air, more propulsion out of that berm, or whatever. No. What you were doing was riding the rough trails of the time, always trying to extend the ride without having to double-back or repeat sections.

And what were those trails like? They were rocky, rooty, wet, purpose-built singletrack. At least if you were on a good trail. The not-good trails were rocky, rooty, wet snowmobile trails or powerline corridors rife with impassable swamps and beaver dams. Riding those trails was the cycling equivalent of Humphrey Bogart wading through the Congolese marshes in The African Queen, emerging covered with leeches. A great ride was all about keeping on keeping on, the longer and more technical the climbs, the better. It was about endurance and fortitude. Descents were sometimes a hoot, often challenging, and almost never contained any meaningful airs or manmade features. At most there would be a 2x12 that some kid had propped up on a stump, here today, gone tomorrow, given wind, water, and wear from riding. Same with a crude stile over a fieldstone wall that someone built from boulders, or out of quickly rotting logs to help riders over a large downed tree.

Trail building and riding were battles against time: The first year, the trail was soft and slow with evergreen duff, but promising. The next year and the year after that, heaven. Years four and five were still good, but the roots were emerging and the the flow was harder to find. After ten years, forget it. Build a new trail somewhere else, because this one was now nothing but a latticework of roots and rocks.

Ten or twelve years ago a pair of trail studs from IMBA in Colorado came east to teach us how to build durable trails properly, to get out of this cycle. They had a bunch of local volunteers to help. After a whole week they had only built a half mile of trail. Their shtick was that you had to get down to the "mineral layer" by cutting through all the roots. They were clueless about our geology and ecosystem. Finally they had to admit, "You guys really have an awful lot of trees here." It just wasn't feasible.

Then, sometime around six or eight years ago, something changed. I'm not actually sure what it was. Money? Know-how? Willpower? Buy-in of landowners? Dunno. But suddenly machine built trails were sprouting up here and there. And they were built partly by ADDING material OVER the roots. Ah. So THAT's the secret.

The new trails had big berms and they had tabletops and opportunities for serious air with an actual landing zone free of trees and ledges. In short, they were smooth, and they were fun, and they were meant primarily to be ridden in the downhill direction. Often there was an accompanying "climbing trail" associated, laid out with switchbacks that made the climb just an easy slog, not the semi-terrifying technically challenging scramble, requiring gumption and skill, that always used to be the toll you had to pay for any significant free ride. (The gumption and skill was now reserved for the "features" on the descents.)

Even riders' clothing has changed. 20 years ago the local MTB crowd was indistinguishable from their roadie buddies except for the mud on their clothes and the lugs on the bottoms of their shoes.

Fast-forward to 2022 and everyone is riding the new "flow" trails. Their kits scream "mountain biker." Because hours toiling literally in the saddle are not a thing anymore. And they have flat pedals. Because you don't have to be efficient if you're sessioning, with the associated numerous and prolonged tea parties that we always used to poo-poo. But you DO need the flexibility of instant-off, and the stability of a big platform.

So it all makes sense to me. I just don't fit in, is all. For me, riding is about pedaling, not about jumping. It's the skier / snowboarder thing- making turns vs. finding "hits." This is not a value judgment; it's just what it is.

@aveski ... sanity check?
That's why I said, Cross Country NOT Cross Stuntry.

I hate what has happened to a good portion of the local trails. To me, that's not what mountain biking is about and doesn't interest me at all.

As for the adrenaline rush, if that happens when I'm skiing or MTBing, something has gone horribly wrong! :geek:
 

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