Closed Trail Skiing (northeast edition)

[ss20]

I forgot skiers our East are special, so skiers code doesn't need to be applied to them . Bottom line is that if a run is closed there is probably a good reason ... so don't do it.

Actually it is both. There was a case two years back where some dad on vacation took his family of seven out of bounds to ski epic POW. They got stuck there overnight and had to rescued. Avalanche risk was super high too. So not only did he risk the lives of his entire family, but he also put everyone who worked find and rescue them at risk too. Sorry this is just stupid selfish behavior. On the bright side he did get a $28,000 bill for the search and rescue as well as a lifetime ban from the resort.

The thread title is Closed Trail Skiing Northeast Edition... why cite avalanche danger is a risk???

When comparing East/West the risks are different. The outcomes of a dangerous situation are different. So therefore...the mentality is different. The risk/reward equation is different.

If rope-ducking was a problem here it'd be a crime, like in CO or other local mountain jurisdictions. Or patrollers would pull passes. Many of the Vail resorts here are in fact looking the other way on rope-ducking (so I hear) as local patrol wants to open more trails on thin cover but it's not a good look for the tourist customers so they stay closed.

 

[chilehed]

Dumbasses will dumbass.

 

[dovski]

The thread title is Closed Trail Skiing Northeast Edition... why cite avalanche danger is a risk???

When comparing East/West the risks are different. The outcomes of a dangerous situation are different. So therefore...the mentality is different. The risk/reward equation is different.

If rope-ducking was a problem here it'd be a crime, like in CO or other local mountain jurisdictions. Or patrollers would pull passes. Many of the Vail resorts here are in fact looking the other way on rope-ducking (so I hear) as local patrol wants to open more trails on thin cover but it's not a good look for the tourist customers so they stay closed.

So it is also a problem out East as resorts close runs and areas of the ski hill for a reason. Dangers may be different but there are still risks and rules. And yes resorts/patrollers do pull passes out East too. So just because you got away with a warning once or twice does not make this ok or mitigate the risk to yourself or others. As a former patroller and someone who knows long time ski hill owner/operators out East, they take this seriously. Even if you know what you are doing (which a lot of people think they do but don't), others may see and copy your behavior and get themselves into trouble. So far on this thread I am hearing a lot of rationalization and justification for ignoring the skiers code and skiing closed runs. Sorry this East v West argument is a does not hold water. Skiing is a great sport that we all love, but it is also a sport that comes with both responsibility and risks. Those who ignore the rules and do not take responsibility for their actions just increase the risks and that ultimately impacts everyone. So please justify and rationalize away, as to why it is ok to break the rules out East, but understand it really is not.

 

[mdf]

Peace @dovski . I agree with not skiing closed trails anywhere. I just disagree on the reasons.

 

[dovski]

Peace @dovski . I agree with not skiing closed trails anywhere. I just disagree on the reasons.

Agree my original post was West focused so risks are different when big mountain skiing out West, than the risks you have on most hills out East.

 

[dbostedo]

I agree with all that too, having never ducked a rope myself... but it does seem like at some eastern resorts it's super common to duck ropes, and punishment is minimal or even non-existant.

 

[Crank]

For me, it depends what's open. If I duck at all, and I have ducked, I tend to duck early season when there is not much open to choose from and maybe late season for the same reason. Late season ducking usually involves some walking at some point along any given trail.

The only danger is danger to myself and I am fairly old and slow and cautious.

 

[wooglin]

Ranks right up there with littering and straight lining. Same mentality.

 

[François Pugh]

So it is also a problem out East as resorts close runs and areas of the ski hill for a reason. Dangers may be different but there are still risks and rules. And yes resorts/patrollers do pull passes out East too. So just because you got away with a warning once or twice does not make this ok or mitigate the risk to yourself or others. As a former patroller and someone who knows long time ski hill owner/operators out East, they take this seriously. Even if you know what you are doing (which a lot of people think they do but don't), others may see and copy your behavior and get themselves into trouble. So far on this thread I am hearing a lot of rationalization and justification for ignoring the skiers code and skiing closed runs. Sorry this East v West argument is a does not hold water. Skiing is a great sport that we all love, but it is also a sport that comes with both responsibility and risks. Those who ignore the rules and do not take responsibility for their actions just increase the risks and that ultimately impacts everyone. So please justify and rationalize away, as to why it is ok to break the rules out East, but understand it really is not.

The rules are wrong; it should just be "open and patrolled" and "ski at your own risk and your own rescue", and if you get hurt skiing at your own risk you should not be able to collect from anyone else.
Unfortunately for those of us who value freedom and take responsibility for our actions, those are the rules, and I don't think we can change them, so we have to live with them, just like we have to live with ridiculously low speed limits on most highways.

 

[crgildart]

I was thinking more along the lines of snowmaking equipment, hoses, connectors, etc stashed there. All kids of stuff under that 6" of snow that can really ruin your day..

 

[François Pugh]

I was thinking more along the lines of snowmaking equipment, hoses, connectors, etc stashed there. All kids of stuff under that 6" of snow that can really ruin your day..

LOL, about 30 years ago I was skiing Mount Washinton British Columbia. There is little to distinguish one ski run from another amongst the snow ghosts at the top. As a result, I ended up doing about a mile a minute on a closed run after speeding down some off-trail steeper snow. The thing they had on that run to make it closed was a groomer coming up the run. I was able to turn and avoid colliding with the downhill groomer, but I think the groomer operator had quite a scare; I was chastised for being on the run later that day.

Come to think about it with today's code, we were both "ahead".

 

[James]

Come to think about it with today's code, we were both "ahead"

Yes, but the groomer wins that one.

I once hit a buried snow gun on the side of a well traveled open trail on a cold day. There was some nice pow so I skied it, hit something and crashed. On the lift I noticed some black stringy thing sticking out the side of the ski.
Taking it off at the top, I discovered I’d peeled off a huge section of the base. That was it for the skis.

 

[newboots]

Rescue in the East can be dangerous to the first responders/patrol. My ex once ducked the rope on Devil's Fiddle (Killington). He figured he knew the trail well, so the blowing snow shouldn't be a problem. Up there, it was a whiteout. He discovered he didn't know the trail all that well after all, when he went off an unexpected small cliff and landed on some rocks. "I thought those rocks were way over to my left!"

Brand new rock skis!

But a trail like that, in a whiteout? That would be a bad day for patrol. Even trying to find him up there would be very difficult. Fortunately, they weren't called, and he made it back to Bear.

 

[SKIBUM 6]

I might be that “Jack@SS back East???? But I do understand the East/west difference. Here in the East the run is closed because of light coverage. The closed signs are still there after a dump. In PA we don’t have “Clifts” persay. Out west they don’t baby you. They put a small sign up saying “Cliff”. You want to go over??? go right ahead. Out west,I never go on a closed run! I have gotten myself in plenty of trouble on the open runs!

....but then you get some jack@ss from back east who is used to ducking ropes and just doesn't understand it is different out there....

 

[chilehed]

... it should just be "open and patrolled" and "ski at your own risk and your own rescue"...

Ownership of property means that you have the right to exclude others from using it, so no.

"Your carcass will remain where it is until it's safe for someone who's not irresponsible to haul it down" isn't a workable solution.

 

[François Pugh]

Ownership of property means that you have the right to exclude others from using it, so no.

"Your carcass will remain where it is until it's safe for someone who's not irresponsible to haul it down" isn't a workable solution.

Too bad.

 

[rickg]

Under the lift, probably recognizable outfits. What’s the real deal in your view? If you are in the know or just untouchable is it a bad thing to do, realistically?

Don't be a tool. Don't do it!

Rick G

 

[stan51]

Last time I went down a closed trail (in Vermont) I checked with patrol first. They said "go ahead". Otherwise, I won't do it, except when I am patrolling and working on that trail. There are some perks of being a patroller!

 

[Wilhelmson]

Don't be a tool. Don't do it!

Rick G

These comments are hilarious since I wasn’t asking if it’s ok for me. What do you think about the well known crowd (not ops doing their job) doing it without fear of punishment? Are they all tools?

 

[Wilhelmson]

Is that what you guys are teaching over there?