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Coaching youth race programs, stand and comment or ski the course with the kids?

slow-line-fast

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Early season, we ski with the kids for freeski drills. Explain what to do and why, show it, then give feedback.

Then when the snow is deep enough to set gates and wide enough for the ski area to give us a lane, we are often up against a race calendar - the default is to set the course, stand at the bottom to watch and give as much feedback as we can before the next race.

In this mode we miss out the effective instruction pattern: explain what to do and why, show it, then give feedback. But to do that, we insert ourselves into the training lane bottleneck (often, randomly, two or more teams run the same training lane), and as we ride the lift to ski down in view of some of the kids, others go one or more runs without a coach in sight. Plus: some of our athletes are much better examples of how to ski the course than we are, so just watch them instead. On the other hand, skiing the course keeps us (coaches) honest, and demonstrates to the kids that training and competing is not about being perfect, but about always making the effort.

My question to other youth race coaches is, how do you balance this? Of course, first we get as many other coaches and parents helping as we can. But even after all that, the tradeoff remains.
 

hbear

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What is your coach to athlete ratio?
We alternate between finding a vantage point on the track and radio to the athletes at the start (sometimes stopping an athlete where we are on the track if seeing something that needs some immediate feedback), with cycling around with a small group (3-5 athletes). Can chat about things at the top of the lift, work on some technical free ski drilling to the course and then watch them on course again.

Depending on age, one should usually have eyes on the track when an athlete is running it, and even more so a spotter at a knuckle to ensure it’s clear and safe below that point.

Don’t typically ski the course, but will slip it whenever going to position wherever we are on the track. If really young U10 or under, different story, often the coach’s ski the track with the kiddos (usually very young coaches that just finished racing FIS Or whatever so cool for the kids)
 

Burton

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Don’t typically ski the course, but will slip it whenever going to position wherever we are on the track. If really young U10 or under, different story, often the coach’s ski the track with the kiddos (usually very young coaches that just finished racing FIS Or whatever so cool for the kids)
I'd say that's about the limit of it in my program, too. A coach may jump in a course occassionally for fun if the kids aren't in it and are lapping the chair or whatnot, and for kids that are making the transition to blocking in SL (i.e., U10s), it can be helpful to show them the line and what it means to have the body pass inside the gate. In terms of demonstrating effort, recently we had about a 15 gate stubby flush set for some U10s and we had a hard time getting them to a) go as straight as possible and b) push to go as far as possible until blowing out, so a couple of us coaches made a contest of seeing how far we could get through it (on GS skis, to boot). That's on a course that is hiked though, so the coaches aren't leaving the kids on their own. Otherwise, it's one coach running the start, and 2-3 giving feedback at the bottom, and no re-living the glory days for the coaches. That's for a well-staffed USSA weekend program with 30 some coaches. When I coached a Buddy Werner program with parent and high schooler coaches, it was more relaxed and the high schoolers in particular ran the courses in part ot keep it fun for them and, as you suggest, to demonstrate.
 

oldschoolskier

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One of the things that was used on my son in swimming (yes in the water) was a feed back head set, which allowed instant feedback as he was swimming.

I suspect that this would be good when training the kids skiing as well, great thing is its one way, coach to athlete. You teach, they understand, but the correct action is not what is expected (that seeing understanding and implementation issue), here with that “voice in your head” something like this happens....close, little more (etc.....), bamg on keep that up. Instead of at the end of the running.

If you are interested, please let me know and I’ll post a link to what he used which should work on the slopes.
 

razie

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I don't see a big problem there - sounds fairly normal. Do both, within reason! A few things to keep in mind.

Don't just lay it out outright "do this because that", even during free skiing - use decision training and make them think. Part of that is that they don't need feedback every run - but do use frequent video feedback and external cues. Don't forget that for modelling you should use good skiers, including video - yourself may not be the best model.

A radio at the top with a squawk box is a very good tool - especially if you have visual of the entire setup even from the lift. Even if you don't squawk, each should know what they're working on, not just cycle through...

The breaking point is how many individual developmental paths you can keep in your head. Above that, you're in over your head!
 

ScotsSkier

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Not youths, but I coach Masters in 2 different programs. I have tried various different approaches, standing in the middle, at the bottom, feedback over the radio etc. What i have consistently found though is that giving feed back F2F to the athlete at the bottom of the course is by far the most effective for me and my athletes. You can usually tell from their facial expressions how they felt about their run (well before masks you could!) to see if they are aware of how they did and they get immediate feedback while it is still fresh in their minds (us old guys dont necessarily remember for long!). It is also easier to see if they really understand what you have seen and what changes are necessary and to discuss if required whichh it is much harder to do over the radio.
The downside of course is that it is not always possible to see the whole course so it obviously helps to have another coach further up the hill to give feedback to the coach at the bottom. Also if you have limited hill time and trying to get enough cycles in you can find yourself multi-tasking giving feedback while also watching the next athlete on the course.

Sometimes of course you just need to give feedback over the start radio but i usually try to limit that to just a couple of key pointers/chnages required. Some Masters are also a bit sensitive to having their feedback broadcast to their fellow athletes.

Not often that i will run the course prior to the start (I may try to sneak a couple of runs in during the session) but what i have been doing lately is running the course prior to the start with my boots loose and a drill in my hand which i have found is a great way to instantly identify if I need to tweak a coupe of gates to improve the flow.....ogsmile
 

Rudi Riet

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I'll do active demos at our region's speed camp, as speed was my thing when I was racing and those skills haven't diminished as much (slalom, on the other hand...). Also, sometimes it's best to have an active visual reference (with narration) of things like handling jumps and air, especially with some junior racers who believe they "can't do this."

My extra sales pitch is that I'm doing this all on a replacement hip: "if I can get air, make the move, and stick the landing on a new hip, what's stopping you?" I'll then work on the mental game with them.

I can also do relevant demos in GS, though as I'm primarily coaching our U19s they pretty much have their technique dialed in at the macro level, and all the micro adjustments can be made after video sessions and self-analysis.

Slalom? Well, I can analyze and do simple demos but a slalom racer I was not and am not. It's entertaining to watch inasmuch that I'm not the one they want to use as a model for anything other than stubborn tenacity. ;)

Otherwise: I'm camped out on the training course, I'm slipping every few runs, I'm taking video, I'm providing active feedback over the radio to "Coach Motorola" (i.e. the radio left at the top or bottom of the course if we're short-staffed). I'm there to answer questions during course inspection. However, with U14 and younger athletes I'll actively inspect with the athletes; once they're U16 and older I expect they're good enough with line analysis to suss out most of the stuff, and to ask me if they have questions.
 

S.H.

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So many variables, so general thoughts here.

I try to avoid standing at the bottom for the whole session as much as possible. But ... sometimes it's the best or only option.

I was lucky at my last gig (7 years) - relatively small group (<10), free reign to set as I liked, and no need to have eyes on the hill at all times. Non-elite U16s (think 100- to 250-pt skiers), tech only, weekend program. Not coaching this year.

Some days I'd lap with the group and (1) ski the course either partway or all the way (wherever to get a better view of athletes), (2) slip/course maintenance, (3) adjust a gate or two to force looking ahead. I'm still a decent enough skier that I'm a good demo for that ability level. On the way up, I'd talk with 1-2 athletes on the chair about what I saw. Sometimes. Helped that we went over the course on the chair, and you can point out specific gates, tracks, etc.

When I worked with elite U16s and older FIS athletes, I'd ski courses with them less - I'm not as useful a demo - but still sometimes to (1) show that I can, (2) show a "tough" course is skiable, and (3) because it's fun. It can help break down barriers between athletes and coaches. Seeing a coach fall is also always a highlight.

Sometimes I'd take video. I usually limited to 2 runs of video/day ... otherwise it can be information overload. But again ... what's right depends on whether you have assistant(s)/helper(s), the athletes in your group and how they learn, pressure from your program director, etc. IMO, there's an over-reliance on video in some programs. Yes, it's great to have an objective viewpoint, but you also have to get athletes to find the cues/feelings that work for them and also make sure to build up confidence before race day/events. Some is good. More is not necessarily better.

Other days, camping out at the bottom for a run or two is right. Sometimes standing midway and coaching through the radio is right. I don't think every athlete needs feedback every run. A couple reminders/prodding to make sure they have a focus, and corrections if something is going awry. Try not to overwhelm with thoughts/ideas/feedback. Remember that positive feedback is often just as important (if not more so) than corrective suggestions, especially as you get closer to competition. In situations where there are multiple coaches, I think it's useful to have coaches rotate through the session so that everyone gets different perspectives and viewpoints.

Remember you don't need to run training courses from top to bottom all the time. Sometimes running sections of a training course is good to focus on tactics in tricky sets or dealing with terrain. Running that with the athletes can be good - even if your technique isn't the best, your tactics can be.

Use dye/brushes/stubbies.

Keep skiing with your group out of gates. A lot. All year. If it's available, on a large variety of terrain. Remember it's nearly impossible to work on technique (i.e., get better at skiing) in gates. Gate training is for tactics.
 

Rudi Riet

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Keep skiing with your group out of gates. A lot. All year. If it's available, on a large variety of terrain. Remember it's nearly impossible to work on technique (i.e., get better at skiing) in gates. Gate training is for tactics.

This rings so, so true! And if you're coaching kids in skiing nexus locations (e.g. the Rockies, Wasatch, Sierras, Cascades, Presidentials) it's easy to get them into the fun, challenging stuff.

Ski the trees.

Ski the never-ending bump runs.

Get air on rollers, knolls, waterfalls, or small cliffs.

Shoot the chutes.

Hike to earn your turns (though it's best to do this with a few others, preferably locals who know the terrain being hiked).

Ski in the rain.

Ski on the re-frozen ice.

Harvest corn.

Ski powder.

Ski cut-up powder.

Ski both of those on old SG skis.

Hit the terrain park.

Even enjoy the mellow beginner trails (wanna learn how to glide on a flat ski?).

For those of us coaching at smaller areas with only two basic kinds of trail (beginner flats and somewhat steeper "expert" trails), you need to get creative. Eventually you can - and will - run out of terrain options. And sometimes some of the options aren't entirely great for learning (e.g. a terrain park that's all flat landings).

And if your athletes from smaller mountains worry about missing races because their families have booked a ski trip to full-on ski country and big mountains, encourage the athletes to go on those trips to the big mountains and ski all the terrain possible. If the kids need to demo some wider skis, they should! A pair of tiny SL skis in big mountain powder is a challenge but often not a lot of fun for someone who doesn't weigh much. Put 'em on fatter boards? Bliss.

And if the kids can link railed turns on wide-waisted skis, they'll be better on their narrow-waisted racing skis when they return to them.
 

Swede

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This rings so, so true! And if you're coaching kids in skiing nexus locations (e.g. the Rockies, Wasatch, Sierras, Cascades, Presidentials) it's easy to get them into the fun, challenging stuff.

Ski the trees.

Ski the never-ending bump runs.

Get air on rollers, knolls, waterfalls, or small cliffs.

Shoot the chutes.

Hike to earn your turns (though it's best to do this with a few others, preferably locals who know the terrain being hiked).

Ski in the rain.

Ski on the re-frozen ice.

Harvest corn.

Ski powder.

Ski cut-up powder.

Ski both of those on old SG skis.

Hit the terrain park.

Even enjoy the mellow beginner trails (wanna learn how to glide on a flat ski?).

For those of us coaching at smaller areas with only two basic kinds of trail (beginner flats and somewhat steeper "expert" trails), you need to get creative. Eventually you can - and will - run out of terrain options. And sometimes some of the options aren't entirely great for learning (e.g. a terrain park that's all flat landings).

And if your athletes from smaller mountains worry about missing races because their families have booked a ski trip to full-on ski country and big mountains, encourage the athletes to go on those trips to the big mountains and ski all the terrain possible. If the kids need to demo some wider skis, they should! A pair of tiny SL skis in big mountain powder is a challenge but often not a lot of fun for someone who doesn't weigh much. Put 'em on fatter boards? Bliss.

And if the kids can link railed turns on wide-waisted skis, they'll be better on their narrow-waisted racing skis when they return to them.

Hmm, there’s a speech in there Rudi ... rings true in life as well as on the hill. Keep your eyes and mind open.
 

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