Collision at Squaw Valley brings mountain safety to the forefront

[Alexzn]

10-year-old San Francisco boy fractures back in crash with Squaw Valley ski team member

"Seeing your child getting barreled into at high speed, I was incredibly shocked, scared for his life."

abc7news.com

 

[Pequenita]

10-year-old San Francisco boy fractures back in crash with Squaw Valley ski team member

"Seeing your child getting barreled into at high speed, I was incredibly shocked, scared for his life."

abc7news.com

 

[Alexzn]

Any collision is not OK. I actually found this article to be quite one-sided, as it was not clear what the 10-yr-old skier was doing and whether his actions contributed to the accident in any way. Given that the patroller who saw the collision declined to assign the blame, I suspect that the child was not just simply "barreled into at high speed". If the team kid was straightlining Sibo groomer and ran into the other kid, that's one story (full blame here- do not straightline unless you have a clear path; do not straightline after 9:20 am, period), if that happened on the ungroomed section of the bowl and the kid was skiing under a knoll, it is a very different story. I am sorry that the kid got injured, but there is almost always two sides to any accident.

By the way, I have seen examples of incredibly stupid behavior by parents and kids over this holiday break. Just on Saturday I see a family with two small girls on Shirley 1 at Squaw. The mother was leading the way and kids were in deep -deep wedge trying to crawl down a steep icy slope, falling and crying on every turn. The father (on a snowboard) followed them, lifting them up, straightening the skis and pushing them on (saying the usual "you can do it, you can do it"). At one point, as both kids got out of hearing distance, I asked him whether he knew that the runs to the right were less steep. He got incredibly offended and told me that they have been on that slope "more than 6 times". After telling me that he angrily rode away, falling heavily on his very first turn, sliding down the slope, and almost taking down his own kid. Simply put, getting a deep-wedge beginner on that slope on such a busy day is incredibly reckless, making them do it 6 times is just dumb. I hope he was referring to a different day (which is dumb on a whole another level).

Yes, it is the responsibility of good skiers and ski team kids to avoid the public, and most of the time they are doing it very successfully. Yet every time someone does something stupid, it is the better skier who gets the bulk of the blame. Sharing the slopes should go both ways.

 

[Pequenita]

I actually found this article to be quite on-sided, as it was not clear what the 10-yr-old skier was doing and whether his actions contributed to the accident in any way. Given that the patroller who saw the collision declined to assign the blame, I suspect that the child was not just simply "barreled into at high speed".

I feel similarly. I mainly think that a 13 y.o. experienced skier lacks the judgment of a 40 y.o. experienced skier, so while the younger child that got hit may have been doing something erratic, like extending the bottom of a turn longer than the ones before it, an adult with better judgment would do something like notice how the child was skiing and pass the child as they were turning away, rather than put themselves on a potential collision course. But a less experienced adult probably wouldn't have avoided the collision, either.

 

[Eleeski]

I didn't see the accident - because I had the judgement to avoid Siberia in the obviously dangerous conditions!

The 13 year old got some pretty harsh penalties for "no fault". It certainly seems that Squaw is doing its best to teach the skier's code. That might be the best way to deal with this issue. Better than feeding a bunch of lawyers to squeeze money for "accountability".

It's sad to see any serious injuries. Ski defensively.

Eric

 

[Philpug]

I was privy to two incidents this season, one in each are members of this site and one was myself. I watched one happen and the other I was involved in. In both incidents, no one was at fault, they just happened. I didn't see what happened in this one at Squaw and neither did anyoen else here. We can only go by what has been reported and hope that there is no slant to it.

 

[4ster]

How about a little proactive education before people are allowed on the slopes. This education could begin with requiring all pass purchasers to watch the film “ride another day” before their pass or ticket are issued.
Sad to think that our sport has come to this but people need to realize that the slopes are not Disneyland.

 

[Tricia]

What kind of skis have people been liking for Tahoe conditions the past couple of days? Still getting used to this west coast thing and choosing between my 116 waist praxis or GS race skis obviously hasn't had great results. Race skis are great on the groomers but looking for something that isn't horrible on the firm bumps to dust on crust.

That's quite the 2 ski quiver. Extremes on both ends. A good 90ish mm ski may fill it out nicely.

one-sided, as it was not clear what the 10-yr-old skier was doing and whether his actions contributed to the accident in any way. Given that the patroller who saw the collision declined to assign the blame, I suspect that the child was not just simply "barreled into at high speed".

That was my gut feeling as well. I don't want to speculate how it happened but....

 

[Alexzn]

My guess after learning a bit more about this accident is that it was one of these "straightlined Sibo, didn't see a kid turning across the slope, saw him too late" kind of deal. Unfortunately, ski teams, especially the Freestyle team, are truly guilty of doing this crap in the middle of the day when Sibo is crowded with member of the public. In this case I think the punishment was not severe enough, the kids need to be told to cut this crap out.

Straightlining Sibo is much worse than speeding on Mountain Run, by the time you are half way down that pitch you are truly unable to stop if someone swerves into your path or comes in from the Chicken Bowl traverse. It is a perfect slope to get kids used to the sensation of high speed runouts (groomed, very steep pitch at the top that gradually flattens to a wide flat groomed road), and it is a necessary element of their training, but it has to be done early in the morning when the run is uncrowded and has a clean runout. Big Mountain team groups do it in the morning all the time, but I have seen the Freestyle team (with coaches!) do it close to lunchtime which is sheer idiocy.

 

[laine]

More on the kid who got hit on Sibo:

 

[John Webb]

To find the FB post to share or see further discussion you'll need to go to your FB and search FB for Joseph Chong (of San Francisco)
Or better yet click the above link for "Linda Kang Chong'

 

[Alexzn]

I’m very sorry for Nolan’s injury and for the anguish it caused his parents. Clearly the team kids were skiing somewhat recklessly ( although, see some further thoughts). But the public campaign the Chong family is waging is, frankly, a gross overreaction.

if I had a dollar every time I see someone bombing Sibo completely out of control, I would have had enough money to buy the resort. And most of the time those are members of the public in deep backseat and out of control. I frankly have a very hard time believing that two ski team kids just ran down a small kid in broad daylight. He had to turn into their path. That does not change the outcome, the kid was downslope and still had the right of way, but the kid did do something unwise. Any time I change my lane on the slope I try to look uphill. I have the right of way, but I still look.

The statement that ski teams do not rain their kids in safety is ridiculous. What does the Chong family actually know about the ways Squaw trains their ski teams? If I fall on a race course and twist my knee, does it mean that I am not trained to turn on skis? Or was it just bad luck to a chunk of ice in the wrong place?

More to the point, my friend broke his leg at Squaw the same week. He needed three patrollers to extricate him from a tree and get him down. Had those guys been busy policing Sibo, my friend would have not gotten the care and attention he needed as soon as he got it. Let patrol do what they do best, do not make them into cops who have to placate overprotective parents. Skiing is a dangerous sport.

 

[laine]

if I had a dollar every time I see someone bombing Sibo completely out of control, I would have had enough money to buy the resort. And most of the time those are members of the public in deep backseat and out of control.

This. Half of the people skiing on Sibo should not be on Sibo.

Any time I change my lane on the slope I try to look uphill. I have the right of way, but I still look.

And this. I’m not sure how much this is still taught. If I ski off my predictable line, I check uphill. But most people don’t, and I even notice it with the crew I ski with. Lack of situational awareness is a real problem. I don’t want to blame the kid who was hit - he had the right of way - but was he taught proper ski etiquette/protocol?

 

[Alexzn]

Some more details from the facebook threads. Indeed that was Sibo, the two kids were racing down the Sibo face and Nolan Chong was making a wide turn across the hill and pretty much skied into their path. I am guessing that one of the kids reacted in time to avoid Nolan and in doing so blocked the other kid from adjusting his line. Unfortunate, but utterly understandable.

Parents claim that Nolan was an advanced skier who in the words of the father skied "multiple double black diamond runs" at Whistler, Jackson and Squaw with an instructor. (Well, there are no double-blacks at Squaw, but that's beside the point, we all know what this really means). For a decently advanced skier making slow wide turns across Sibo face was not a very wise choice. For a ski team kid skiing Sibo at a speed where you cannot make an emergency avoidance maneuver was a dumb choice either. Bad choices lead to very bad outcomes.

I am sorry for Nolan Chong, hopefully everyone involved learns their lessons. It does look like Nolan's parents learned the wrong lesson.

 

[skibob]

Some more details from the facebook threads. Indeed that was Sibo, the two kids were racing down the Sibo face and Nolan Chong was making a wide turn across the hill and pretty much skied into their path. I am guessing that one of the kids reacted in time to avoid Nolan and in doing so blocked the other kid from adjusting his line. Unfortunate, but utterly understandable.

Parents claim that Nolan was an advanced skier who in the words of the father skied "multiple double black diamond runs" at Whistler, Jackson and Squaw with an instructor. (Well, there are no double-blacks at Squaw, but that's beside the point, we all know what this really means). For a decently advanced skier making slow wide turns across Sibo face was not a very wise choice. For a ski team kid skiing Sibo at a speed where you cannot make an emergency avoidance maneuver was a dumb choice either. Bad choices lead to very bad outcomes.

I am sorry for Nolan Chong, hopefully everyone involved learns their lessons. It does look like Nolan's parents learned the wrong lesson.

I truly don't have any knowledge or answers about this specific situation. And your comments have been sophisticated and even handed.

However, I do want to observe that there is nothing inherently wrong about making slow wide turns anywhere. I can think of lots of reasons to do so, and "not good enough to be on that run" is only one of them. To me the key is whether he significantly changed his turn pattern w/o looking. Further, I have had the experience of looking uphill before turning and still being caught by surprise by a skier or boarder who goes blazing by me close enough to startle me. Where'd they come from? I've been hit at least once in that scenario. I am by no means a slow skier, but I am definitely not the fastest guy on the hill either. And yet another thing to throw out there that I bet none of you ever considered. You rely on hearing as much as seeing what is behind you I bet? Well, guess what, some of the people on the hill are hearing impaired (and we aren't all elderly or slow).

But the real truth is that all of this nuance (what I've said, but also what you have written in a few posts now) is lost on even most adults. Kids? Pfft, yeah right.

EDIT: The time I was hit, I was going somewhat slowly because the slope in front of me was crowded, including with children. I had just caught up to them, so I looked over my shoulder and put the brakes on. I won't go fast in conditions like that. Period. I find that far too many "good" skiers and boarders will. And that is who hit me. An experienced boarder. No, he didn't stop. Nor slow down. His relative skill was apparent as I watched him skitter off, casting glances over his shoulder. He blasted me hard. Knocked me right out of my bindings going forward face first. I was fine, albeit royally pissed off. It must have been a spectacular collision because at least a couple of dozen people stopped to check on me.

 

[textrovert]

Parents claim that Nolan was an advanced skier who in the words of the father skied "multiple double black diamond runs" at Whistler, Jackson and Squaw with an instructor. (Well, there are no double-blacks at Squaw, but that's beside the point, we all know what this really means)

I always discourage friends from taking kids (and themselves) on to runs where they are not really skiing but actually just surviving. Especially groomed "black" runs. These are the worst areas. Doesn't always work, and I think some take it as an insult.

 

[Seldomski]

I always discourage friends from taking kids (and themselves) on to runs where they are not really skiing but actually just surviving. Especially groomed "black" runs. These are the worst areas. Doesn't always work, and I think some take it as an insult.

I agree completely, but it's also the responsibility of the uphill skier to spot and safely maneuver around people who are surviving a run. People skiing in survival mode are unlikely to be thinking about the skiers code...

 

[Alexzn]

I truly don't have any knowledge or answers about this specific situation. And your comments have been sophisticated and even handed.

However, I do want to observe that there is nothing inherently wrong about making slow wide turns anywhere. I can think of lots of reasons to do so, and "not good enough to be on that run" is only one of them. To me the key is whether he significantly changed his turn pattern w/o looking. Further, I have had the experience of looking uphill before turning and still being caught by surprise by a skier or boarder who goes blazing by me close enough to startle me. Where'd they come from? I've been hit at least once in that scenario. I am by no means a slow skier, but I am definitely not the fastest guy on the hill either. And yet another thing to throw out there that I bet none of you ever considered. You rely on hearing as much as seeing what is behind you I bet? Well, guess what, some of the people on the hill are hearing impaired (and we aren't all elderly or slow).

But the real truth is that all of this nuance (what I've said, but also what you have written in a few posts now) is lost on even most adults. Kids? Pfft, yeah right.

EDIT: The time I was hit, I was going somewhat slowly because the slope in front of me was crowded, including with children. I had just caught up to them, so I looked over my shoulder and put the brakes on. I won't go fast in conditions like that. Period. I find that far too many "good" skiers and boarders will. And that is who hit me. An experienced boarder. No, he didn't stop. Nor slow down. His relative skill was apparent as I watched him skitter off, casting glances over his shoulder. He blasted me hard. Knocked me right out of my bindings going forward face first. I was fine, albeit royally pissed off. It must have been a spectacular collision because at least a couple of dozen people stopped to check on me.

No nothing is inherently wrong with skiing slow wide turns. it is probably more dangerous in that particular run context. Still, there should be a reasonable expectation of not being run over while doing those turns.

I have been on many sides of this issue. My kids were in the ski teams, my wife got landed on by a freestyle team kid who jumped a rock blindly a few years ago, her day was done. My daughter was only 8 when she was knocked over by a huge local dude, he broke her ski and her binding and just skied away. When I caught him, his first glance was on my skis (I guess they looked rad enough, so he decided not to flee, and finally said that he was sorry). So ski teams do not have a monopoly on reckless behavior and the ski ares is hardly responsible for that. There is a drumbeat on Facebook to start litigation. That would be a stupid move that would only enrich the lawyers. Squaw is actually policing the team behavior, they get safety briefings,they get yelled at, and they are banned outright from the most crowded runs during peak hours. This accident had nothing to do with the ski team.

 

[dbostedo]

Any talk of "lanes" is always a bit maddening to me. There are no lanes. I like to meander a lot. And while I try to do it safely (glancing uphill when i can for self preservation), i can't see behind me.

I don't want anyone assuming I'm in some kind of lane. If you're assuming someone is in some kind of lane, you risk passing too close or hitting them. If you have to stop and wait for a bit for a run to clear, do it. I do frequently.

 

[Alexzn]

When I ski a crowded groomer, I stick to a "lane" religiously. That's my lame attempt at self-preservation.