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Combi boots vs skate boots (and vs classic boots)?

crosscountry

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When I started skating, almost everyone around me who skate strongly suggest I go for combi boots. So far, it's working out ok as my one and only skate boot.

But the fit had never been quite as well as I like. So I'm contemplating its replacement. Naturally, I'm curious what I'm giving up in using a combi vs a dedicated skate boot?

My understanding, from reading material and talking to reps, the only thing "combi" different from skate boots are the sole. Combi's have a flexible "classic sole" whilst skate boots have a rigid sole. If that's the case, not much would be lost on the combi, as the sole are typically flat on the skis whenever the skis are on the snow. The fact the soles are "soft" wouldn't matter, would it?

I don't have a NNN classic boot. So I can't test back to back of my classic boots to the combi on the same skis. On the positive side, the higher and stiff cuff on the combi makes descend on the long soft classic skis much more confident inspiring. But as a naturally curious person, I do wonder whether, if anything the combi is giving up compare to dedicated classic boots when used for striding.
 

tch

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You are skiing both skate and classic in the same boot, right? A pretty good way to avoid equipment overload. Your question about performance "compromises" is irrelevant unless you are asking b/c you're thinking about two sets of boots. If I were to invest in two boots, I'd keep skiing classic on my combi boots and buy a dedicated skate boot.

AFAIC, you don't really give up that much with combi boots. I ski both classic and skate in my combi boots, just like you. And...like you, I find the higher/stiffer cuff is a great aid in controlling my classic skis as well as the stiffer torsional support of the combi sole. I like that.

But...personally, I've skied dedicated skate and classic boots and, for my purposes (recreation, not racing) I don't find the compromises to be significant enough to warrant two sets of boots. YMMV.
 

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Hmmm, I don’t understand what you mean when you say the sole is flat on the ski?
Since it is obviously not during the push (after all, we’d have alpine bindings if that was the better option. In fact, actual ice skates moved to a pivoting binding when I was a teenager).
BDED138E-104F-4249-BEAD-B719EFA92A85.jpeg
 

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To answer your question, I suspect the stiffer sole of he skate boots helps with power transfer, and perhaps also with control , due to the greater torsional stiffness.

But I have never used combi boots, so no personal experience.
Like @tch said, using a combi boot for classic seems to work well for many people I know. So maybe a good strategy would be to add a pair of true skate boots first, then decide if you replace the old combi boots with new combi’s or go or dedicated classic boots.
 
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Hmmm, I don’t understand what you mean when you say the sole is flat on the ski?
Since it is obviously not during the push (after all, we’d have alpine bindings if that was the better option. In fact, actual ice skates moved to a pivoting binding when I was a teenager).
View attachment 192499
But at that point, the ski is no longer loaded nor generating power. So I would think the flexy sole of the boot has no relevant any more at that point?
 
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maybe a good strategy would be to add a pair of true skate boots first, then decide if you replace the old combi boots with new combi’s or go or dedicated classic boots.
I like that idea. :)

I'm continuing my "tour" of demo events. I'll try some skate boots and see if I can tell any difference. If I can't tell the difference, I'll focus on combi.

On the classic front, obviously, the combi is heavier than a typical classic boots. But the better control from the stiff cuff I really like. I have a hard time going for a dedicated classic boot if it's just a bit of extra weight. I'm leaning to accepting the weight penalty for better downhill control.
 
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Slim

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But at that point, the ski is no longer loaded nor generating power. So I would think the flexy sole of the boot has no relevant any more at that point
But you are generating power. That’s what skating is : a lateral push, on an angled ski/skate, turns into forward movement.

Maybe my screen grab is from closer to the end of the push, but earlier in the push the heel is already coming off the ski a bit too.

And also, in V1, the biggest force is at the end of the push, vs V2 where it’s at the start. so it’s technique dependent too.

The other clue is that both skate ski boots and ice skate boots are stiff.

That said, how much difference it makes I don‘t know, especially at the less powerful, recreational skier side of things where I reside.
 

In2h2o

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But the fit had never been quite as well as I like. So I'm contemplating its replacement.
So interesting you started this thread I just tried the Atomic Redster S9 skate boot today it's really nice! very adjustable.
Long story short I'm not a big xc skier but I do have a Rossi Combi boot which I think contributed/added to my foot injury of t(s)urf toe /sesamoiditis which has finally healed. Put on the boots this season and instant discomfort so haven't xc skied at all until today. My good friend was offering me a very pricy pair of skate skis as she was switching back to classic so I demoed a pair of dedicated skate boots. Wow. what a difference. Not ever going back to the lower level Rossis. Just have to figure out how to justify a $500 pair of boots I won't use as much as my other set ups.......
 
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I'm not sure I understand your post.

So one boot is hurting your feet. You believe it's because it's a combi.

But you also suggest the higher price of the new boot was a factor. So I'm confused.

How do you attribute the different comfort level between the two boots to any of the factors? Price? Combi vs skate? Different brand? Different size? High end vs entry level?...
 
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That said, how much difference it makes I don‘t know, especially at the less powerful, recreational skier side of things where I reside.
I always though for us recreational skiers, the question is not so much "how much difference" but rather "can we feel the difference is significant enough".

So far, everyone is saying the difference isn't significant enough. Fair enough.
 

In2h2o

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Sorry if there was confusion about skate vs combo choice - it all boils down to quality of boot. It's the fit/lower level quality of my Rossi boot not the style. I like the idea of having a bit more ankle support of a combi boot for classic skiing for the reasons mentioned above. What I didn't realize was there were boots that were as sophisticated and adjustable in so many places as the Rester S9. That particular boot has a lot more options to customize the fit than a basic classic boot - for fit issues to me it pays to upgrade.
 
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But there're also pretty high end combi boots.

In fact, that's what got me to start this thread. I originally thought combi boots are only for low to mid-level skiers. But then I saw a bunch of pretty pricy/high end combi. So maybe combi isn't just for dummies. Hence I want to find out what the compromise means in practice.
 

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On "normal people level" it's mainly personal preference. But if it's about a bit higher level dedicated skate boots and dedicated classic boots makes a lot of sense. Skating boot has stiff sole, and it's not irrelevant. You get more power out of it, and you also get better control over skis and push. That's one of reasons, why nowadays carbon boots are so much better then older plastic ones.
For classic, it's probably more about personal preference, but at least I simply can't ski classic with combi boots. Sure control in corners with skating cuff is better, but for me it feels so weird it's no go. Another thing is mobilitiy of ankle where high skating cuff makes little difference, but I would say it's not all that much.
So while purely from efficiency point of view, there's more difference between proper skating boot and combi boot then between classic boot and combi boot. But for me personally, proper skating boot and proper classic boot is must. And I don't race anymore so no need for skiathlon stuff, which means no need for combi boots either :)
PS: "Pricey combi boots" are there just because of skiathlon stuff (15k classic+15k skating), where they change skis and poles in between but boot change would take too much time, hence combi boots.
 
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PS: "Pricey combi boots" are there just because of skiathlon stuff (15k classic+15k skating), where they change skis and poles in between but boot change would take too much time, hence combi boots.
Thanks a bunch! I didn't even know of skiathlon until now! :(

Learn something new every time! :)
 

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Over here it seems like most kids at age below age 11ish use a combi boot for both skating and XC, and then switch to dedicated skate boots around 12 when they get heavier and bit more powerful. Combi boots seems unstable for skating, especially on roller skis. But with light skier, the soles are not that soft so works well for light kids in small shoe sizes.

I have considered combi boots when I have to upgrade my classic boot since they are developing a crack. Just for some extra control and higher cuff against snow.
For classic, it's probably more about personal preference, but at least I simply can't ski classic with combi boots. Sure control in corners with skating cuff is better, but for me it feels so weird it's no go. Another thing is mobilitiy of ankle where high skating cuff makes little difference, but I would say it's not all that much.
But this quote makes me a bit hesitant...
 
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For classic, it's probably more about personal preference, but at least I simply can't ski classic with combi boots. Sure control in corners with skating cuff is better, but for me it feels so weird it's no go.
I totally get that feeling of "weirdness" when I tried to classic with a combi boot for the first time! It took me a while to get over it. But I'm a fairly casual strider. Someone who's at an elite level and have a more fine tuned technique may find it very unnatural to changed their lifelong training of a well developed technique.
But this quote makes me a bit hesitant...
Best go to some demo event and try it for yourself.
 
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Tony S

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To me it's about whether you are at all serious about your pursuit of the sport.

I go bowling about once a year, as part of some social event. I'm bad. I'll always be bad. I don't care. It's an activity that I enjoy very occasionally. I will never own shoes or my own ball or a monogrammed shirt. All that is fine with me.

If skate skiing is your bowling, stick with the combi boots.

If you are serious about skate skiing, just get the right gear and stop thinking about it. If twelve year olds need it, so do you. It's the lowest hanging fruit. As you work on technique you will never have to wonder if hardware is your issue.

Edit: You just need "good" skate boots. You don't need the $800 ones.
 
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How about pics of these various boot types for those us with an interest but not in the know?
They look the same on the outside! (Skate and Combi) Because the only difference is in the sole.

(Classic boots look quite different. And the difference is actually the compromise area. Low cuff vs high cuff)
 
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If skate skiing is your bowling, stick with the combi boots.
Hell, ALL skiing (downhill, xc, be it skate or classic or bc) are my bowling!

Even though I easily ski 30-50 days combined, I'm afraid I can't bring myself to be "serious" about them.ogwink
 
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