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Colorado Commercial flight landing issues at Aspen airport, CO - elsewhere too?

LoneStarMtnLover

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Bottom line:
Having so little time available to ski, and having to fly wherever I'll end up, I'm curious what might be more reliably accessible resorts to visit, and any to avoid? Please advise.

Context for my question:
Had a lovely first-ever trip to Snowmass and Aspen (20-inches fell over the week) save for my direct flight getting re-routed to Grand Junction, followed by another three+ hours of bus transfer and related travel to Snowmass Village. Might sound like a first-world problem, but my issue is with informed consent. Once skiing there and speaking with locals and fellow visitors, I was told that 80-90% of flights into Aspen airport, in the winter, are private jet traffic, and that commercial (we flew United) flights are regularly re-routed when they miss narrow landing windows (designed to accommodate the private jets). Staff at the Grand Junction airport said that this (re-routing practice at Aspen airport) was the norm Thursday through Sunday for the prior six weeks; effectively something highly likely and to be expected. Other skiers I spoke with said this situation was hit and miss (i.e., being able to fly directly to Aspen airport), but not to be surprised when you're re-routed and bussed in.

I'm writing to let others know of this (likely?) possibility and to ask experienced ski travelers what other airports in the US (e.g., CO, UT, CA, WA, MT, etc.) and Canada near ski resorts are impacted by this sort of thing, or some other obstacle? I'm not talking about legitimate weather delays, FAA snafus, etc., but airports prioritizing private jets over commercial, or some other systematic phenomena I wouldn't think to expect that could lead to similar travel-time disruptions. I get capitalism and politics, but am curious if there are other ski towns and airports that don't comport with reasonable travel expectations for those not fortunate enough to fly in their own private jets (i.e., if I pay for a direct flight in I should get it, save legitimate weather challenges)? That's my last trip to Aspen and I'm curious where else to avoid, and where to head next time. Thank you in advance.

Moderators: please move this post if I'm in the wrong section. TY.
 

dbostedo

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I'm not talking about legitimate weather delays, FAA snafus, etc., but airports prioritizing private jets over commercial, or some other systematic phenomena I wouldn't think to expect that could lead to similar travel-time disruptions.
I'm not sure I believe that getting rerouted out of Aspen has anything to do with the private jets (other than the fact that they create increased traffic in general, which could lead to rerouting of either commercial or private planes.) I.e. I don't believe a commercial flight that's, say, 20 minutes late getting to Aspen has missed a window and wouldn't be able to land because incoming private jets have any kind of priority.


Aspen is, in general, one of the worst airports to get into. A good resource for checking likelihood of getting into an airport is the Bureau of Transportation:


But you have to know what airlines fly in. I thought there was a different site or feature on that site that we've discussed on here before that was a little more user friendly, but I can't seem to find it right now.

FWIW, I've flown into Aspen 3 times, and made it in each time... my luggage has not always made it though. Once it was just plain left behind in Dallas, and another time the flight my luggage was on was diverted to Grand Junction, even though my flight made it to Aspen.
 
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Wade

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That hasn’t been my experience in flying into Aspen half a dozen times or so in the last 10 years. The airport is prone delays or cancellations due to weather (which I’ve mostly been lucky enough to avoid), but it seems unlikely they’re prioritizing private jets over commercial flights and it isn’t something I’ve ever heard before.
 

dbostedo

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Here's a couple of good related threads, that have links and some more data, even though it's a few years old:



And here's that other page I was looking for:

 

mdf

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In my experience, AA has better odds than the others.
My theory is that the short hops from Denver are more frequent and considered more disposable than the longer flights from Dallas.
I haven't looked lately, but the last time I looked at stats they were available by airline.
 

Jilly

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I can't think of a Canadian resort that has an airport. Most are at the nearest city/town. At one time you could get a helio to WB. Private jets maybe at WB.

We have a small airport at Tremblant. But it's still 1 hour away from the resort. Better off to go to Ottawa or Montreal.
 

Unpiste

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I don’t remember Aspen being a particularly busy airport. Unless there were flights stacked up, coming in at all hours of the day, it doesn’t make sense to reroute any kind of traffic to meet certain windows.

Sounds like maybe a bit of an urban legend.
 

Pajarito-bred

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Well, for a weather-dependent travel mode to enjoy a weather-dependent sport, it's an inherent risk that can be mitigated but never eliminated.
Besides, the worst weather is the best skiing* ( * not guaranteed in CA, CO, NM, AZ, ID, MT, WA, OR, UT, or WY or anywhere else)

Bottom line:
Having so little time available to ski, and having to fly wherever I'll end up, I'm curious what might be more reliably accessible resorts to visit, and any to avoid? Please advise.
Sounds like maybe a bit of an urban legend.
Yep, or a conspiracy. You'll be sharing a gondola with those ultra-elite Private-Jetters in their ridiculous outfits, except you won't know who they are behind their helmets, goggles and masks. But you don't have to limit your choices to the spendy mega-resorts, especially if your skiing style or budget are limited.

The Aspen airport is so super-convenient, not necessarily the high-cost travel option (for family, not for me, I have a 2-hour drive). Only 10 minutes from area ski-in-out condos. But, the trade-off is depending on a small high-elevation airport with a short runway, limited to regional-jet-size aircraft. More importantly, Aspen's distance from major cities and travel hassle is highly effective filter to screen out mega-crowds.
Worth it? Your call.

There are numerous other ski towns with lots of flights, lower altitude, long-runway airports, each with tradeoffs, none with zero chance of severe weather diversions/cancellation.
Salt Lake (couple of decent resorts nearby)
Hayden (Steamboat)
Montrose (Telluride)
Jackson (Hole)
Taos

Maybe it's the origin point, not the destination, that's the root cause of the trouble:
Location: Texas
 

dbostedo

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Maybe it's the origin point, not the destination, that's the root cause of the trouble:
Location: Texas
Eh... I'm from DC, but fly American most of the time, and through Dallas most of the time. I've flown through Dallas to Aspen (twice), Eagle/Vail (several times), Bozeman, Jackson, Santa Fe (twice), and Hayden. Only a couple of the Eagle/Vail trips were not for skiing... and I've made it into all of them.

I've also flown into Burlington (VT), Manchester (NH), Aspen, Salt Lake, Albuquerque, and Vancouver to ski, but not through Dallas, and also made it in. Now that I'm thinking about it... I've been pretty lucky to never have missed a day skiing due to my flight. I've only missed a half day due to lost luggage too. I hope I'm not jinxing myself - but really even for Aspen, which has a really poor record, most flights still get in (or do the Grand Junction or Eagle detour + bus ride that the OP mentioned).
 

Sibhusky

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I don't think there are too many issues in Kalispell (for Whitefish) aside from weather delays. I've never been diverted myself. I guess they'd send you to Missoula? I see there were 2 diverted United flights out of well over 700 flights. Certainly there's no priortization of private jets. We also don't have the same tricky topography that Aspen has.

The airport is about a half an hour from the resort.
 
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Seldomski

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Aspen airport is uniquely terrible as a winter destination. I believe the issue has to do with needing multiples miles of visibility. Landing with instruments only is not possible (or violates typical safety procedures for the big jets). Airports like Montrose or Grand Junction are in a much larger valleys and visibility requirements are nowhere near as restrictive.


IDK about private jets causing schedule issues for larger airplanes.

Loved skiing Aspen but would not recommend the airport there. Our flight in was diverted to Grand Junction. Our flight out was nearly canceled and left 2-3 hrs late. I think every other flight that day was canceled.

If we go back to Aspen, we won't be using the Aspen airport.
 
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Nancy Hummel

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We have had a lot of snow in Aspen this year. Many days where it has snowed all day and/or is cloudy.

That could be a large part of the problem. I have not heard of private jet traffic trumping commercial.

I generally advise people to fly into GJ. Airport is small, easy and the drive from GJ to Aspen is much less of an ordeal than driving from Denver.
 

bbinder

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Eagle Vail is another fairly convenient option to Aspen: fewer weather problems, more flight options, and (also) an easy drive to Aspen
 

Bill Miles

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I have flown into Aspen commercial several times and in a private plane also, both quite a few years ago.

Unless things have changed, there are no instrument approaches except special ones for the airlines, so ceiling and visibility have to be good. Even for the airlines, minimums are a lot higher than a major airport on flat terrain.

Coming from the east, after the first time or two, you learn which valley to descend through. I was doing this one time, listening to the tower radio, with the town and airport not in sight yet. One of my passengers asked where it was and I told him we had to fly through the tunnel first.
 

James

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Didn’t AA fly turbo props from Denver?
I took it once, but can’t remember.
I do remember being told that there were software issues with some new planes they were flying that precluded using them into Aspen. But that’s some time ago.

Aspen also gets closed for incidents involving private planes. 4 incidents in 2022, but equal winter/non winter it seems.
 

givethepigeye

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In my experience, AA has better odds than the others.
My theory is that the short hops from Denver are more frequent and considered more disposable than the longer flights from Dallas.
I haven't looked lately, but the last time I looked at stats they were available by airline.
This - I am here right now, caught the donut hole of weather Sun. All Sat I watched FligntAware -it was snowing, IFR, LIFR. The AA flights from Dallas both landed after many attempts. Others diverted to Colorado Springs, grand junction, or just flew back to Denver. A couple of PJs went to Eagle. That said - all the flights from Dallas on AA were cancelled today.

We always have a backup plan and if we can - do not take the bus from Grand Jumction. We are about 70% on making it in, same getting out - Summer has high winds.

it’s been snowing all day and Ajax was empty. Town seems super quiet, ski on all day long.
 

dbostedo

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Aspen airport is uniquely terrible as a winter destination. I believe the issue has to do with needing multiples miles of visibility. Landing with instruments only is not possible (or violates typical safety procedures for the big jets). Airports like Montrose or Grand Junction are in a much larger valleys and visibility requirements are nowhere near as restrictive.
I was taking to my Uncle a few weeks ago about flying into Aspen. He's a recently retired American Airlines pilot and set policy for certain flights in conjunction with the FAA.

He set the requirements for Aspen - which plane types were allowed, and what protocols were used. He mentioned that a couple of the concerns are:

1) the ceiling, because you have to have visual in time to be able to abort landing, as some folks mentioned above
2) the planes ability to abort with an engine loss and still be able to climb out of the valley safely

Apparently #2 really restricts larger planes more than anything, as well as how high the ceiling has to be to allow for a climb out
 

James

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dbostedo

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Ask him about the group being formed in this article. They’re looking to make recommendations to pilots about flying in/out of Aspen.

Interesting. Seems like the training/cert requirements mentioned for private pilots isn't enough.

I wonder if they follow the same rules that American and United have set for their flights? (Doesn't sound like it, but I don't know enough.)
 

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