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Colorado Commercial flight landing issues at Aspen airport, CO - elsewhere too?

James

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I wonder if they follow the same rules that American and United have set for their flights? (Doesn't sound like it, but I don't know enough.)
There’s a big difference between general aviation, part 91, and airlines covered in part 121 of the faa rules. Especially in training. There’s other parts, 135 I think, that can cover private jets, but I think it’s voluntary.
Your uncle could explain all this much better.

Suffice that what we’ve come to take for granted with airlines in the last 25 yrs does not necessarily exist outside that realm. It may.
There’s like 10-20 deaths per month in general aviation crashes in the US.
 

Bill Miles

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Interesting. Seems like the training/cert requirements mentioned for private pilots isn't enough.
I know of no special training/cert requirements for private pilots for places like Aspen, or most anyplace else for that matter. There are requirements for things such as instrument or multi-engine flying, oxygen use, and airplane limitations such not flying in icing without appropriate airplane certification. As one example, airlines flying Transport Category airplanes must have capability to deal with an engine failure at any point.
I wonder if they follow the same rules that American and United have set for their flights? (Doesn't sound like it, but I don't know enough.)
Of course they don't follow the same rules. Fly airplanes not in the multi-engine turbine engine Transport Category, don't have legal airplane performance limits, don't have to have two person flight crews, don't have dispatchers, don't have to be on IFR flight plan, don't have training requirements for specific routes and airports, etc., etc.
 

Bill Miles

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There’s a big difference between general aviation, part 91, and airlines covered in part 121 of the faa rules. Especially in training. There’s other parts, 135 I think, that can cover private jets, but I think it’s voluntary.
Your uncle could explain all this much better.
Part 135 is second tier commercial operation, such as charter. Business jets and prop airplanes can be either 135 or 91 depending on the nature of the operation

Suffice that what we’ve come to take for granted with airlines in the last 25 yrs does not necessarily exist outside that realm. It may.
There’s like 10-20 deaths per month in general aviation crashes in the US.
 

SBrown

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I can’t stop thinking about fairtomiddlin’s first experience flying into Aspen — but it was to go to … ABasin — he just didn’t know, at the time, that flying into Denver was what to do. I think he eventually flew OUT of Denver, after driving back and forth around the mountains multiple times. It’s a wonderful story, but lost to the epicski archives, I believe.

Anyway, I live in Carbondale but have never flown into or out of Aspen. Mostly because my parents are still in Denver and I can just drive there and deal with it more easily … the flight is most likely going through Denver anyway, and I eliminate the possible hassle of ending up in Junction or wherever else.

One of my friends called me this past summer for a ride after she had been rerouted to Junction. The shuttle was taking them to Aspen, but she didn’t want to go all the way since she lives in Carbondale, so the shuttle driver dropped her off on the side of the road. It was kinda hilarious, she ended up on the wrong side of a landscaping fence hauling her luggage through wetlands …

TLDR: flying into and out of Aspen can be a major PITA, and I have avoided it, but I have never heard that it’s because of private jets.
 

cosmoliu

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A coworker told me last week that he had bought a 4WD truck and outfitted it with true winter tires (he’s not otherwise a truck type) for the express purpose of driving the 13 hours from our location to Aspen. He usually goes there some three weeks a season and had gotten fed up with the hit or miss aspect of getting there by air.
 
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TS
LoneStarMtnLover

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Here's a couple of good related threads, that have links and some more data, even though it's a few years old:



And here's that other page I was looking for:

The airports to avoid post with the table is so on point.

The following doesn't IMO report the most relevant numbers for comparison [e.g., private vs commercial flights scheduled to arrive and depart (not just number of passengers), delays, re-routes, etc., controlling for weather], nor percentages interestingly: https://www.aspentimes.com/news/incredible-number-of-private-flights-land-in-aspen/
Determining the rate of commercial vs private traffic (not bodies flown) at Aspen shouldn't be that hard to find...

This is such a helpful community! Thanks to all wrt my questions re Aspen airport and other locations. Please keep the guidance (and information/prior threads) coming. Cheers.
 
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tball

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Eagle Vail is another fairly convenient option to Aspen: fewer weather problems, more flight options, and (also) an easy drive to Aspen


Just saw that on the news tonight. I-70 through Glenwood Canyon closes far too often, so Grand Junction is probably a more reliable way to get to Aspen than Eagle-Vail.
 

bbinder

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Just saw that on the news tonight. I-70 through Glenwood Canyon closes far too often, so Grand Junction is probably a more reliable way to get to Aspen than Eagle-Vail.
I guess that I’ve been lucky. As to closures of I 70 in Kansas and I80 closures in Wyoming: not so much. When I flew to Aspen Snowmass in the past I was using frequent flier miles and the routing to EagleVail was always easier and cheaper than going to Grand Junction
 

SBrown

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I guess that I’ve been lucky. As to closures of I 70 in Kansas and I80 closures in Wyoming: not so much. When I flew to Aspen Snowmass in the past I was using frequent flier miles and the routing to EagleVail was always easier and cheaper than going to Grand Junction

Lucky, in a sense, but also it has been getting much worse over the past few years. Or weeks. hours maybe …
 

James

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Glenwood Canyon is probably even worse in the spring, with freeze-thaw causing big old rocks to fall and mudslides.
43FD4942-CE8A-4CA0-A56C-FC1027EA8AF1.jpeg
What’s up with that fence? Stopping butterflies?

What y’all are saying -Aspen is surrounded by a moat you’re lucky to get over.
 

Tonyr4

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Bottom line:
Having so little time available to ski, and having to fly wherever I'll end up, I'm curious what might be more reliably accessible resorts to visit, and any to avoid? Please advise.

Context for my question:
Had a lovely first-ever trip to Snowmass and Aspen (20-inches fell over the week) save for my direct flight getting re-routed to Grand Junction, followed by another three+ hours of bus transfer and related travel to Snowmass Village. Might sound like a first-world problem, but my issue is with informed consent. Once skiing there and speaking with locals and fellow visitors, I was told that 80-90% of flights into Aspen airport, in the winter, are private jet traffic, and that commercial (we flew United) flights are regularly re-routed when they miss narrow landing windows (designed to accommodate the private jets). Staff at the Grand Junction airport said that this (re-routing practice at Aspen airport) was the norm Thursday through Sunday for the prior six weeks; effectively something highly likely and to be expected. Other skiers I spoke with said this situation was hit and miss (i.e., being able to fly directly to Aspen airport), but not to be surprised when you're re-routed and bussed in.

I'm writing to let others know of this (likely?) possibility and to ask experienced ski travelers what other airports in the US (e.g., CO, UT, CA, WA, MT, etc.) and Canada near ski resorts are impacted by this sort of thing, or some other obstacle? I'm not talking about legitimate weather delays, FAA snafus, etc., but airports prioritizing private jets over commercial, or some other systematic phenomena I wouldn't think to expect that could lead to similar travel-time disruptions. I get capitalism and politics, but am curious if there are other ski towns and airports that don't comport with reasonable travel expectations for those not fortunate enough to fly in their own private jets (i.e., if I pay for a direct flight in I should get it, save legitimate weather challenges)? That's my last trip to Aspen and I'm curious where else to avoid, and where to head next time. Thank you in advance.

Moderators: please move this post if I'm in the wrong section. TY.
I always fly into Denver then drive to Aspen the next day. I learned trying to fly into Mammoth's small, windy airport one time to never attempt flying into small ski town airports during the winter again. I even avoid Vail's airport, I've had friends turned around mid air because they couldn't land due to bad weather. This almost never happens in Denver or SLC, plus you have much better access to rental cars at big airports.
 

Tonyr4

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I can’t stop thinking about fairtomiddlin’s first experience flying into Aspen — but it was to go to … ABasin — he just didn’t know, at the time, that flying into Denver was what to do. I think he eventually flew OUT of Denver, after driving back and forth around the mountains multiple times. It’s a wonderful story, but lost to the epicski archives, I believe.

Anyway, I live in Carbondale but have never flown into or out of Aspen. Mostly because my parents are still in Denver and I can just drive there and deal with it more easily … the flight is most likely going through Denver anyway, and I eliminate the possible hassle of ending up in Junction or wherever else.

One of my friends called me this past summer for a ride after she had been rerouted to Junction. The shuttle was taking them to Aspen, but she didn’t want to go all the way since she lives in Carbondale, so the shuttle driver dropped her off on the side of the road. It was kinda hilarious, she ended up on the wrong side of a landscaping fence hauling her luggage through wetlands …

TLDR: flying into and out of Aspen can be a major PITA, and I have avoided it, but I have never heard that it’s because of private jets.
I was in Aspen over the summer, the amount of private jets flying in and out during the summer time was staggering. It wouldn't surprise me if it was true.
 

givethepigeye

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So........leaving out of Aspen 10 days or so ago, talking to our driver - said that IF airport in Grand Junction closes, ASE definitely closing as it is the "divert" field for airlines coming from afar. That said, we have flown into EGE and it was about 1:45 to town and google says GJT is a hair over 2 hours. If you were iffy about getting into ASE, GJT seems like it might be a solid alternative - not certain that it gets shut down much.

Also, beautiful day to fly out of ASE, unfortunately it wasn't in DFW (where our plane was) so super late getting home and a 2 hour delay in ASE. Extra time to eat breakfast @ hotel.
 

SBrown

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I was in Aspen over the summer, the amount of private jets flying in and out during the summer time was staggering. It wouldn't surprise me if it was true.
True, was thinking more in winter, with all these skiers.
 

Robertito

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Flying into ASE from Chicago, probably 25 RT’s since 1996, I have experienced cancellations twice due to weather. Both times were on our rare trips through Denver, once in each direction. Also, I can report just 2 luggage delays. Every non-stop to and from Chicago has gotten through, although there have been frequent delays. I have read that the private planes are at their worst at the end of the Food and Wine Fest and the other summer holiday weekends.

My lucky history has not assuaged the trepidations of travel to that airport.
 

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