Comparing the 2024 Boa Boots Offerings from Atomic, Fischer, K2 and Salomon

[Wasatchman]

I think the Shadow will be a competent replacement. It skis very well IMO. True, I haven't been on it in mid winter conditions but spring skiing it was solid.

It seems to me the Shadow better be more than a competent replacement. My sense is the RX had a pretty big following. Discontinuing it for a merely competent replacement seems pretty crazy, especially as some are saying they also messed with the fit.

 

[Wasatchman]

Some people just have to complain and rely on baseless claims. Usually much ado about nothing.

A lot of the concerns seem reasonable to me. Plus the ski equipment industry's track record with new innovation invites skepticism. What percentage of whizbang new technology lives up to its promise? 10%???

 

[Andy Mink]

It seems to me the Shadow better be more than a competent replacement. My sense is the RX had a pretty big following. Discontinuing it for a merely competent replacement seems pretty crazy, especially as some are saying they also messed with the fit.

By competent I mean at least as good. Having not been in an RX I don't know how the fit will compare. They fit me very well out of the box and skied well in the few times I got them out in spring soft grippy snow.

 

[snwbrdr]

Interesting to see BOA is only on the lower foot only. Snowboard boots have the availability of "BOA Focus" with a knob for the upper boot lzone and a knob for the lower boot zone.

Maybe give it time and you'll see a BOA on the upper boot also, instead of buckles

 

[Wasatchman]

By competent I mean at least as good. Having not been in an RX I don't know how the fit will compare. They fit me very well out of the box and skied well in the few times I got them out in spring soft grippy snow.

Yeah I understand. And it has no bearing on how they test and ski, but damn, I think Lange would have made a pretty crazy business decision to replace the RX and by some reports mess with the fit for a boot that is just an equal if indeed that is how they end up turning out.

I am looking for trying them on for size when they hit retail stores to compare the fit to the RX.

 

[Swiss Toni]

Maybe give it time and you'll see a BOA on the upper boot also, instead of buckles

Maybe, PREMEC S.p.A an Italian company that designs buckles for some of the major boot companies https://www.premec.it/en/referenze/ has filed a patent application for a rotary closure system that could be used to close both the cuff and the clog.

WIPO - Search International and National Patent Collections

 

[RoninSkier]

From an engineer's & experienced skiers perspective, the BOA does not seem to provide any real advantage.
Perhaps a 'new thing' to have or even a convenience.

What boot manufacturers need to focus on are -
1) Better easier to to custom fit liners with lots of shaft/tongue & lower foot adjustments for individual preferences
2) 3D printed lower shell based on individually scanned foot profile for each skier for a true custom fit

IMHO

 

[cem]

From an engineer's & experienced skiers perspective, the BOA does not seem to provide any real advantage.
Perhaps a 'new thing' to have or even a convenience.

What boot manufacturers need to focus on are -
1) Better easier to to custom fit liners with lots of shaft/tongue & lower foot adjustments for individual preferences
2) 3D printed lower shell based on individually scanned foot profile for each skier for a true custom fit

IMHO

funny, there is always an engineer who can do it better

 

[markojp]

... but he did say 'liners', and I agree 110%. Better liners are more important than bells, whistles, and BOAS. but it's a harder sell because the change isn't immediately visible, and if you can shorten the product cycle to sell more by obsoleteing last years stuff, then money moves in the direction it needs. Clearly I'm not an engineer, but counting the beans is the tail that wags the dog. The above isn't fact, merely opinion. I'm not an economist either.

 

[cem]

... but he did say 'liners', and I agree 110%. Better liners are more important than bells, whistles, and BOAS. but it's a harder sell because the change isn't immediatelu visible.

sure , better liners but all these things come at a cost, are you (the consumer) willing to pay the increase on a standard liner

 

[markojp]

sure , better liners but all these things come at a cost, are you (the consumer) willing to pay the increase on a standard liner

Yes.

 

[cem]

Yes.

You are in the minority, but we need to remember that the average user of a forum like this is representative of less than 0.5% of the skiing population

forum users ( especially those that frequent technical forums) always want better better better and say they are happy to pay more, if this is the case get a custom liner in the boot because while the brands are all working on improving liners, shells, closures etc etc they are doing it within a price point to suit the masses and whatever they offer you will still want better, the only way past it is go after market

 

[cantunamunch]

funny, there is always an engineer who can do it better

In only a partially joking way, I think there's an entire marketing genre that revolves around this.

Everyone knows about Ikea hacks. Remember when Shimano were first showing their wireless groupsets? I think their marketing specifically did NOT make the system tidy, did NOT tuck it away in obvious or tricky spots, were deliberately NOT clever about routing.

"Buy one, show us how to do it better *innocent halo* "?

 

[markojp]

You are in the minority, but we need to remember that the average user of a forum like this is representative of less than 0.5% of the skiing population

forum users ( especially those that frequent technical forums) always want better better better and say they are happy to pay more, if this is the case get a custom liner in the boot because while the brands are all working on improving liners, shells, closures etc etc they are doing it within a price point to suit the masses and whatever they offer you will still want better, the only way past it is go after market

Honestly, the boot market is bifurcating. Rec boots are shooting for average, not aspirational. Many here who aren't in a race boot (rec or plug) may need to reconsider going forward.

Liners... I'd contend many fitting issues are very much related to inadequate liners, but the direction the industry is going simply recognizes that that vast majority of skiers don't do it enough to care, nor care enough to be fit properly.

FWIW and for perspective, until 2 seasons ago, I was actively fitting. I now run a ski school and have a long relationship with Head/Tyrolia. My perspective is most certainly colored by working with both skiers and instructors who are committed to 'better'. And yes, we're a minority within the big picture. I'm fine with that, just disappointed with some of the new product out there, but no doubt, manufacturers will most likely improve their bottom line.

 

[cem]

Honestly, the boot market is bifurcating. Rec boots are shooting for average, not aspirational. Many here who aren't in a race boot (rec or plug) may need to reconsider going forward.

Liners... I'd contend many fitting issues are very much related to inadequate liners, but the direction the industry is going simply recognizes that that vast majority of skiers don't do it enough to care, nor care enough to be fit properly.

FWIW and for perspective, until 2 seasons ago, I was actively fitting. I now run a ski school and have a long relationship with Head/Tyrolia. My perspective is most certainly colored by working with both skiers and instructors who are committed to 'better'. And yes, we're a minority within the big picture. I'm fine with that, just disappointed with some of the new product out there, but no doubt, manufacturers will most likely improve their bottom line.

And that brand probably has the worst liners of any other there, liquid fit????? Custard inside an over padded poorly made liner where in some models the interface between the tongue and the leg caused more issues than every other boot on the market put together ( don’t get me started on liners )

100% agree liners are the weak point of the current crop of boots, and yes most skiers don’t care enough to try to get it right, they simply don’t want to pay for the time or product to get it right. Typical of all recreation it should be cheap!

 

[BMC]

sure , better liners but all these things come at a cost, are you (the consumer) willing to pay the increase on a standard liner

Yes. Zipfit!

 

[markojp]

And that brand probably has the worst liners of any other there, liquid fit????? Custard inside an over padded poorly made liner where in some models the interface between the tongue and the leg caused more issues than every other boot on the market put together ( don’t get me started on liners )

Not a liquid fit fan. Have only used the race liners (never used LF) and the injected foam liners.

We're back to the point in history like several years ago where you just toss stock liners from the start and don't look back, though IMHO, a couple of manufacturers are doing a decent job.... how much longer they'll bother or can afford to is the question.

 

[cem]

Not a liquid fit fan. Have only used the race liners (never used LF) and the injected foam liners.

We're back to the point in history like several years ago where you just toss stock liners from the start and don't look back, though IMHO, a couple of manufacturers are doing a decent job.... how much longer they'll bother or can afford to is the question.

that's the thing, a few are doping a goo job, some are listening but not hearing and a few more just don't give a dam what the boot fitters think

as for liquidfit, they now put that piece of trash in the race boots too, we take the attitude that when the boot is new, if we have to inject that liner with the custard you are in the wrong boot

 

[markojp]

as for liquidfit, they now put that piece of trash in the race boots too, we take the attitude that when the boot is new, if we have to inject that liner with the custard you are in the wrong boot

Agreed. Fortunately I have zero need for it. I'd rather them make a more robust/dense tongue for the stock race liner, but, well.... there you go.

 

[onenerdykid]

Posting this video for a couple of reasons:
1. it demonstrates the repair process and how straightforward it is.
2. it shows the type of force required to pop the dial off its mounting plate (officially known as the "bayonet").
3. it shows the difficulty of cutting the cable.