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Comparing the 2024 Boa Boots Offerings from Atomic, Fischer, K2 and Salomon

Rich_Ease_3051

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Do you know if testers tried yanking the dial off a hanging cable?

It seems like an extreme scenario but I imagine they did it to simulate situations where noobs, beginners, and park skiers would fall awkwardly and the dial comes loose and gets yanked? Like park skier knocking it off a rail?

I probably shouldn't even assume this is only a scenario for beginners. It's possible an experienced skier or powerful carver falls and slides off an icy patch and the dial gets knocked off the ice and drags on the hard pack and gets yanked. Or the dangling dial gets caught under the other ski and gets pulled.

1681916643426.png
 
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Philpug

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Benefits that justify the incremental costs and extravagant marketing hype. From what I’ve read and seen and felt that doesn’t appear to be the case.
Right now I feel the improvement is incremental at best. Having skied the R2 Recon both with and without the BOA, I don't notice a difference in performance, this is with a packed out 97mm Recon Pro and the 100mm Recon BOA.
Of course the whole schemozzle may still achieve its objective of persuading skiers that getting BOA boots will improve their skiing and inducing them to buy the new shiny goodies!
Lets just say there is a lot of sizzle with the steak.
 
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Do you know if testers tried yanking the dial off a hanging cable?

It seems like an extreme scenario but I imagine they did it to simulate situations where noobs, beginners, and park skiers would fall awkwardly and the dial comes loose and gets yanked? Like park skier knocking it off a rail?

I probably shouldn't even assume this is only a scenario for beginners. It's possible an experienced skier or powerful carver falls and slides off an icy patch and the dial gets knocked off the ice and drags on the hard pack and gets yanked. Or the dangling dial gets caught under the other ski and gets pulled.
Yes, lets get into the once in 10,000 scenerios. :nono:
 

Rich_Ease_3051

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Yes, lets get into the once in 10,000 scenerios. :nono:
Hmm I don't know Phil. Could be a 1 in 1,000 scenario. Have you seen noobs skiing down the mountain like maniacs and falling down like rag dolls?
 
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Philpug

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Hmm I don't know Phil. Could be a 1 in 1,000 scenario. Have you seen noobs skiing down the mountain like maniacs and falling down like rag dolls?
Even a 1:1,000, come back when you have a 1:10 or even 1:25 scenario. No need to make the extreme exception the rule.
 

Rich_Ease_3051

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Even a 1:1,000, come back when you have a 1:10 or even 1:25 scenario. No need to make the extreme exception the rule.

This depends on how testers simulated the possible falling scenarios. I would say falling is not a rare extreme event. I remember when I was a noob who fell down a lot and there were certainly many instances when my toe and instep buckles inexplicably came undone.
 

BLiP

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Otherwise it begs the question to me why aren't the racing crowd adopting this first? That crowd is looking for the most minute kind of edge they can get, so I would think a better fitting boot would be right up there of interest to them
Hasn’t this been answered already? Racers already have boots that fit as closely as possible. They aren’t looking for a boot they can wear comfortably all day. They are looking for ultimate performance over the course of 1-2 minutes. They have access to the manufacturers and to every boot fitting expert/tool/technique imaginable. The average skier does not have this. It seems clear to me that BOA is (at least initially) designed to help the average skier, i.e., someone who doesn’t spend days with a fitter grinding out fractions of a millimeter to get a perfect fit. BOA is probably going to help a lot of people get a better fit in the lower cog. Maybe it won’t help the crowd of experts around here, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a good development regardless.

P.S. Buckles break all the time. More often than not, a least in my experience, in non-skiing environments, i.e., walking around the lodge and catching them on a chair, table, etc.
 

Rich_Ease_3051

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Also, this one image right here, doesn't give me confidence at all.

I'll wait for early adopters to mass test this. And I'm not talking about the masses who ski well. But shit skiers who get their skis tangled up.

That hanging thing is too close to the ground for comfort, even with the height added by the ski and binding. You don't even have to do extreme edge angles to get this thing caught up under skis it looks like.

1681917398682.png
 
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It seems like an extreme scenario but I imagine they did it to simulate situations where noobs, beginners, and park skiers would fall awkwardly and the dial comes loose and gets yanked? Like park skier knocking it off a rail?
You do realize that the price point of these start in the $600 range, not a boot a beginner or noob will be in. As far as the park skier, these are not on cabriolet/3 peice boots. Let's leave the "yeah, buts..." at the door.
 

James

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Well Chile’s started selling gobs of fajitas years ago by taking advantage of the sizzle. They realized a waiter carrying a loud sizzling plate through the dining room makes others want it.

What we’re going to get next year is a lot of Boas carried through the dining room. The advantage to manufacturers is one advertising Boa works for all. This could be a double edged sword, as it doesn't matter what boot, as long as it’s Boa.
 

Rich_Ease_3051

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You do realize that the price point of these start in the $600 range, not a boot a beginner or noob will be in. As far as the park skier, these are not on cabriolet/3 peice boots. Let's leave the "yeah, buts..." at the door.
Nah I disagree Phil. That hanging thing looks dangerous and could get under skis of experienced skiers who keep their skis close and can perform a modicum of high edge angle.

There's no harm waiting for mass adoption/mass testing.
 
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Well Chile’s started selling gobs of fajitas years ago by taking advantage of the sizzle. They realized a waiter carrying a loud sizzling plate through the dining room makes others want it.

What we’re going to get next year is a lot of Boas carried through the dining room. The advantage to manufacturers is one advertising Boa works for all. This could be a double edged sword, as it doesn't matter what boot, as long as it’s Boa.
I have gotten a lot of question on the BOA when I break them out of my boot bag and even in the lift lines. The sizzle is there.
 

Rich_Ease_3051

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Then wait but don't fabricate problems or issues where there isn't any.

I would agree with this statement if testers explicitly tried skiing with the dial undone and hanging off the sides of the boots and did close stance transitioning to high edge angles and didn't find any problems.

Barring that, I would say they didn't test all scenarios, which often happens. No test can capture all scenarios. And to speculate on "unknown unknowns", is not "fabricating problems or issues".
 
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James

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Well like the fajitas going through the dining room, you can see Boa on the boot. It’s hard to miss. Boot makers could do lots of stuff to a boot that actually matters, but you never see it.

So what we have here is something that at best makes a minor improvement, but is instantly recognizable. So just as fashion or having the new thing it’ll be popular unless it’s atrociously ugly, which it doesn’t seem to be.
So K2 advertising plays right into that. Solving 60% of boot fitting problems, and being the biggest thing in boots in 60 years- just get a K2 Boa, and you’ll be cutting edge and it’ll solve those pesky fitting problems. Of course any Boa boot will do that.
 
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Philpug

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Well like the fajitas going through the dining room, you can see Boa on the boot. It’s hard to miss. Boot makers could do lots of stuff to a boot that actually matters, but you never see it.
There are more things I would have rather seen in boots before BOA and Gripwalk.
So K2 advertising plays right into that. Solving 60% of boot fitting problems, and being the biggest thing in boots in 60 years- just get a K2 Boa, and you’ll be cutting edge and it’ll solve those pesky fitting problems. Of course any Boa boot will do that.
I do agree K2 is overstepping a bit with their claim of BOA being the biggest advancement in the past 60 years.
 

Tricia

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I would agree with this statement if testers explicitly tried skiing with the dial undone and hanging off the sides of the boots and did close stance transitioning to high edge angles and didn't find any problems.

Barring that, I would say they didn't test all scenarios, which often happens. No test can capture all scenarios. And to speculate on "unknown unknowns", is not "fabricating problems or issues".
Why on earth would someone deliberately test something in a "broken" state?

I have no idea where you come up with these scenarios or why its so important to fabricate problems that don't exist.

When you have people who clearly know what their talking about squashing your concerns, instead of (pun intended) dialing it back, you're doubling down.

Even Otto, who's thoughts on BOA are negative, doesn't share your concerns and he is a boot tester.
 

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