Considering volunteer patrol....school me.

[CalG]

Handles locked forward when the ‘burrito’ (folded yellow tarp with a ~25 lb duffle containing trauma supplies*) is strapped in to the rear of the sled to counter-balance the handles. The burrito takes up the back half of the sled. The handles are folded back when the sled is empty. We use Cascade 100 sleds with the rings mounted by the forward and middle retaining strap locations. The sleds are balanced that way.

Did that make sense? I don’t have a picture handy.

If you put an extra link or two in the carrier handle hooks so that it can be raised just to the level of the lift chair without lifting the sled off the ground, then it’s a little easier to move the sled with the handles folded back. I wish I had pictures to help explain.

We repack the burrito duffle with supplies at the aid room after each use so that the sled is ready for use, and ferry it to it’s on-hill location via lifts. We keep a few sleds at each top patrol shack and position others at strategically established locations around the hill.

*a wood, foam, and webbing quick leg splint, ladder splint, cardboard and foam arm splint, SAM splint, cravats/triangle bandages, nitrile gloves, a few bleeding supplies, and padding foam. A few sleds have backboards in them, which doesn’t affect the balance. Edit: also two wool army blankets in the duffel. So I guess the burrito is 20-25 lbs.

Perfect sense!

Thanks for the imagery!

Our sled packs are: Quick splint, misc foam blocks for under the knee etc, a bundle of 5 cravats, two moving blankets and a plastic bag.
We all carry SAMs and gloves, 4X4, cling and gauze etc. All sleds are packed before they leave Base First aid to be deployed on the mountain.
Our sled packs might be a bit lighter, but not by much ;-) We ditched the card board in the sled packs about 6 years ago. SAMs seem to fill the need. We keep the cardboard splints at BFA to package injuries going out.

 

[martyg]

I would never volunteer at any ski hill. As a volunteer you have zero in the way of rights.

I believe that it was OSHAs 2017 study.... working at a ski hill was the second most hazardous work environment. More hazardous than LE or first responder work. You get hit by an out of control skier, as a volunteer you have zero recourse except against the skier who hit you, and all medical expenses are on you.

As a paid employee you have OSHA on your side. You get hit, your employer picks up medical expenses, which could easily be into 6 figures. If the incident was due to unsafe work conditions, and OSHA is very pricky about “ being impacted from objects above” be it a hammer on scaffolding or an out of control skier. If you file an OSHA claim, and you are not rehired, it triggers a federal whistle blower suit. OSHA executes. You might want to retain an attorney to bounce things off of, but OSHA picks up the tab.

The scenario above caused Telluride to revamp their safety practices. It took a federal whistleblower suit, and private settlement with gag order, to force them into creating a safer environment for guests and employees.

 

[CalG]

I would never volunteer at any ski hill. As a volunteer you have zero in the way of rights.

I believe that it was OSHAs 2017 study.... working at a ski hill was the second most hazardous work environment. More hazardous than LE or first responder work. You get hit by an out of control skier, as a volunteer you have zero recourse except against the skier who hit you, and all medical expenses are on you.

As a paid employee you have OSHA on your side. You get hit, your employer picks up medical expenses, which could easily be into 6 figures. If the incident was due to unsafe work conditions, and OSHA is very pricky about “ being impacted from objects above” be it a hammer on scaffolding or an out of control skier. If you file an OSHA claim, and you are not rehired, it triggers a federal whistle blower suit. OSHA executes. You might want to retain an attorney to bounce things off of, but OSHA picks up the tab.

The scenario above caused Telluride to revamp their safety practices. It took a federal whistleblower suit, and private settlement with gag order, to force them into creating a safer environment for guests and employees.

It's always a risk and reward equation.

Both my lawyer and my insurance agent advise me not to do anything , except pay their bills ;-)

 

[Blue Streak]

I'm going for it. It'll be a lot of hours but I think its a good next step in my ski life.

Good choice! You’ll enjoy being a part of something important.
I had a friend who was on volunteer patrol there for decades, and he loved it.
And you’ll still get to ski with friends - including lots of new ones.

 

[pais alto]

I would never volunteer at any ski hill. As a volunteer you have zero in the way of rights.

I believe that it was OSHAs 2017 study.... working at a ski hill was the second most hazardous work environment. More hazardous than LE or first responder work. You get hit by an out of control skier, as a volunteer you have zero recourse except against the skier who hit you, and all medical expenses are on you.

As a paid employee you have OSHA on your side. You get hit, your employer picks up medical expenses, which could easily be into 6 figures. If the incident was due to unsafe work conditions, and OSHA is very pricky about “ being impacted from objects above” be it a hammer on scaffolding or an out of control skier. If you file an OSHA claim, and you are not rehired, it triggers a federal whistle blower suit. OSHA executes. You might want to retain an attorney to bounce things off of, but OSHA picks up the tab.

The scenario above caused Telluride to revamp their safety practices. It took a federal whistleblower suit, and private settlement with gag order, to force them into creating a safer environment for guests and employees.

Do you know for certain that volunteers “have zero recourse” and “all medical expenses are on you”? A quick casual google turned up one volunteer patrol handbook that said the ski area provided medical insurance for on-duty injuries:
https://www.skiroundtop.com/sites/default/files/2017-11/2017 Vol Patrol Supplement.pdf

It would seem that at least some ski areas provide coverage for on-duty injuries, but it would be prudent to check and see what is covered. It’s probably covered in the agreement between volunteer patrollers and the ski area. But your blanket statement doesn’t seem accurate.

 

[martyg]

Do you know for certain that volunteers “have zero recourse” and “all medical expenses are on you”? A quick casual google turned up one volunteer patrol handbook that said the ski area provided medical insurance for on-duty injuries:
https://www.skiroundtop.com/sites/default/files/2017-11/2017 Vol Patrol Supplement.pdf

It would seem that at least some ski areas provide coverage for on-duty injuries, but it would be prudent to check and see what is covered. It’s probably covered in the agreement between volunteer patrollers and the ski area. But your blanket statement doesn’t seem accurate.

I've seen it play out many times with both volunteer and paid positions. Dude-bro who lives in a van, has no idea that OSHA is a resource, universally gets hosed. Person who did well in business, works at the area as a hobby, and has the means to financially and legally hurt the area, they are taken care of. As an example, see my note about Telluride. That instructor was not dude-bro living in a van, but rather someone who was gainfully retired at an early age, and retained an attorney to advise them throughout the process.

A ski area is a business. They are going to weigh their level of risk. If you sustain a life-altering injury that could cost 7 or 8 figures in care in the future, do you think that the resort will just send checks? It will come down to a legal battle. Do you have 6 or 7 figures in a legal war chest?

If I were to work at an area again I'd want my attorney (I have retained several in my past life, from general business, to contract law, to IP) to review the area's employment / volunteer agreement. If my attorney raised issue with anything, I'd be much happier there as a guest.

If you are the person who is volunteering because the $1,000 for a pass will break you - all of the above is beyond your scope.

 

[CalG]

Not one, of our nearly 100 patrollers does it for the "free Pass".

Popular misconception there. Most are "normal people" business owners and family persons. In my case Family! Both my son's patrol also. Go figure.

Actually, we do it, not for the rewards of being part of a group dedicated to helping others, but just to spite the lawyers who say it's too great of risk.

Oh! On duty, the mountain has covered every injury to our crew members. I've been on for 17 years, and have not heard anyone mention otherwise.

Patrol isn't for everyone, that is true.

 

[jmeb]

- Not doing it for the $400 pass. It'll cost me more to be on patrol than it would to just ski.
- Not a dude in the van by the river. One of the hardest challenges of patrol will be balancing it with new job role.
- You'd probably also tell me not to do a bunch of other things that I find enjoyable in life. Like riding a bike to the neighborhood store or brewery without a helmet, skiing too fast, driving a 2001 vehicle, etc. We all have our own joie de vivre.

 

[martyg]

- Not doing it for the $400 pass. It'll cost me more to be on patrol than it would to just ski.
- Not a dude in the van by the river. One of the hardest challenges of patrol will be balancing it with new job role.
- You'd probably also tell me not to do a bunch of other things that I find enjoyable in life. Like riding a bike to the neighborhood store or brewery without a helmet, skiing too fast, driving a 2001 vehicle, etc. We all have our own joie de vivre.

Actually, I don’t care what you do. It is your life to live. The caveat is that you don’t negatively impact another person, and that you own your mistakes.

 

[CalG]

Actually, I don’t care what you do. It is your life to live. The caveat is that you don’t negatively impact another person, and that you own your mistakes.

Shall we all remember this line when it is YOU that is laying in the snow, screaming in pain, and need a bit of help off the mountain?

Did your actions just "negatively impact another person" such as a volley patrol member?
And how are you going to own your mistake? Special thank-you cards?

jess say'n

 

[James]

Well last year a lot of volunteers at our mt left. All patrollers on weekends were volunteer except supervisors. Vail bought the mt late. The new version- volunteer patrollers wouldn’t get epic local pass like ski school, but only a Sunapee/Okemo pass, (they changed this later in the season), and the kicker- Vail would not cover liability for the volunteers. You’d have to get it through NSP and the Good Samaritan Law.

For a job that’s 7am to 5pm essentially, with huge responsibility, that was too much for many so they walked away and just bought an epic pass. Also, anyone who was an MD had to leave because under Vail they’re not allowed to touch clients, only train other patrollers. Lost 3-4 volunteers that way.

 

[stan51]

I suspect that every mountain is different. Where I patrol (volunteer), we have liability coverage through the mountain's liability policy, and starting this year, the volunteers are going to be under the area's workmans' comp policy. From what I understand, WC provides good coverage here in Montana, and will also protect the mountain from subrogation claims by individual health insurers in the event of a significant injury (this has happened elsewhere in the state). For volunteers, the real benefit of liability coverage is that it provides coverage for the costs of defense... under the Good Samaritan laws, at least here, the chances of being found liable are slim to none unless you do something almost deliberately wrong.

Whether to join a volunteer patrol is an individual choice. For me, it was absolutely the right thing to do. The camaraderie, acquisition of medical, rescue and avalanche skills and an overall sense of purpose are major positives. Of course skiing is a big part of it, but as others have pointed out, if you just want to ski, you don't have to join ski patrol.

 

[kayco53]

Think a few people started patrolling for the free skiing but as my first instructor put it. Its the most expensive free skiing you will ever get. The rewards are the new friends , being part of something bigger,helping people,learning a bunch of new stuff. We do summer first aid for trail running etc. Most of crew can easily afford to ski. My first year I gave up so much overtime I could have skied anywhere. But I would rather patrol. Guess I'am addicted now. Will be instructing this year.

 

[Kneale Brownson]

Watch out, it gets you and then you can't escape

I started teaching in 1970 to have fun with folks instead of being an intrusive news reporter. It's kept me relatively healthy both physically and mentally.

 

[kayco53]

Most guys and girls that joined the CSP got in better shape. Changed my whole out look. Eating better back into hiking, riding my bike etc. Lost about 20lbs and feel way better. Was just slowing down a bit to much. Now wife says I won't slow down often enough. Yea I got hooked.

 

[MattSmith]

Well I passed the ski test. Was much tougher than expected. So now I have to decide just about the time commitment.

@jmeb - Hope to meet you sometime. Do you mind taking a few minutes to describe the ski test? Thanks

 

[jmeb]

@jmeb - Hope to meet you sometime. Do you mind taking a few minutes to describe the ski test? Thanks

Well I'll mostly be living at Loveland this year as I go through the candidate process, practicals, and toboggan training. So come say hi.

Tryouts day in short:

- 60ish people met for intro / overview of the day. Split up into groups -- 15 to the paid tryouts, the remainder split up into 3 volunteer groups.
- We all got an hourish to warmup and freeski.
- Advised we will start on blue groomer, then move across to blue bumps, black bumps, and finish on double black bumps.
- Leader of our group decides we don't need to do that....straight to double black bumps. [ For those who are familiar with Loveland, OTR to Rainbow]
- We ski first lap in three pitches, one skier at a time from our group of about 15. Advised to ski in control, speed our choice, looking for a demonstration that you can control speed on all terrain, do so while remaining in balance. Ski the fall line, but don't have to zipper line the bumps.
- We then all had quick private chats with 3 testers on how first lap went. 1 fellow is bonkers good -- former racer -- told to turn in his bib he's in. 7 of us are asked to ski another lap, another 7 asked to come back next year.
- We ski another lap on steep bumps -- Tigers, the lower pitch of Abowl, back to Cats. Working on whatever we discussed in our individual meeting.
- Another debrief, 4 asked to join, 3 asked to try out again in the future.

 

[Kneale Brownson]

Sounds very much like pro patrol tryouts I've watched at Breckenridge.

The tryout is just the beginning. Once accepted, the skier/boarder gets lots of training and testing.

 

[clong83]

Personal conundrum: Why people volunteer to help a for profit corporations save on labor costs.

The mountain here (Pajarito) was all volunteer ski patrol for a long time. But it also wasn't a for-profit hill owned by some big conglomerate. It was owned and operated by the local ski club, so it made sense.

It got bought a few years ago, and now it is privately owned and for profit. That has been both good and bad, but there really wasn't a choice if the place was going to survive long term. But from what I understand, the number of ski patrol volunteers has dwindled, and they have had to start paying for a small core group of patrollers.

I can see it both ways. On the one hand, I agree with your assessment of giving them free labor (and further, reducing the value of the paid patrollers). But on the other, if it is a hill you love and you really want to be a part of it, then volunteering services are a perfectly reasonable thing to do. Particularly if they appreciate you and respond in kind with a free pass or other perks.

Also, professional ski patrol seems like a chicken/egg thing to me. Where do you get enough experience to qualify for a permanent patroller job unless you volunteer somewhere for awhile? That is, I think you could charitably view it as a couple years of an internship/apprenticeship program if you were interested in becoming a pro.

 

[jmeb]

Well -- should I start a new thread about first year on patrol or just continue this one?

Had a nice summer social event at the Rockies game last week. OEC begins next week. Dues have been paid.

Even got my patrol ski outfit mostly sorted with some decent bibs from the used outdoor gear shop in town, and a $15 black Costco softshell. My orange helmet is gonna clash really bad with the red training jacket .