Cordless iron

Thread Starter
TS
R

Rich_Ease_3051

Getting on the lift
Skier
Joined
May 16, 2021
Posts
376
Location
Sydney
This is very much the direction of travel; a lot of effort has been put into the development of liquid waxes / coatings recently. Modern liquid waxes can have greater durability than hot waxes and are being used on the World Cup circuit.


Because of the C8 fluorocarbon ban the wax manufactures have had to increase their R&D budgets and are investigating other substances, if they could get round the need to use a powerful UV lamp this looks like it could be a winner https://www.zhaw.ch/en/about-us/new...high-tech-ski-wax-to-be-used-at-the-olympics/ by no means a quantum leap, but certainly a step forward.

The wax companies probably make a lot more money from selling ski wax (they seem to use pharmaceutical pricing models) than they do from selling irons etc., the manufacture of the tools is outsourced, so I don’t see them rushing to develop a battery powered iron as the goal is probably to move us away from hot waxing.

Heat seems necessary to bond all waxes and coatings. Even with the daily spray, I believe the cork or felt is not so much a distribution tool, but to heat up the base as we're rubbing on the liquid spray.

The alternatives to heat, IR and UV, are expensive and clunkier.

With the Olympic ski wax that you linked, is that akin to a daily spray or more like the main wax?
 
Last edited:

crgildart

Gravity Slave
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
13,250
Location
The Bull City
I remember my first week in the formica custom cabinets and furniture shop. They sent me around asking other dudes for tools that didn't exist.. Go ask Muncie if I can borrow his Mica Stretcher.. So over to Munz's area I went asking about the Mica Stretcher.. He said that someone else had it..
 

KingGrump

Most Interesting Man In The World
Team Gathermeister
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
8,464
Location
NYC
I remember my first week in the formica custom cabinets and furniture shop. They sent me around asking other dudes for tools that didn't exist.. Go ask Muncie if I can borrow his Mica Stretcher.. So over to Munz's area I went asking about the Mica Stretcher.. He said that someone else had it..

But you learned. :beercheer:
 

Pat AKA mustski

I can keep a Secret
Skier
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Posts
3,786
Location
Big Bear, California
I still rotobrush with a 30 years old corded Bosch 3/8" drill. I have about 30 cordless drills but that one is still my favorite. Best for the job. Especially when I have a ton of skis to do.

Not every tool needs to be cordless.
Like this guy cutting a concrete slab with a Makita 36v/9" cut off aw.

View attachment 174352

If he had worked for me, I would have fired him on the spot.
Why not just plug in the corded 14" cut off saw and be done on quarter of the time. There is an electrical receptacle right there.

View attachment 174353

Like they termed it in the NFL. It's just unnecessary roughness.
Don't mess around with toys when you got a job to do.

I see sh*t like this on the FB power tool groups. Guys with impossibly clean and immaculate looking tools collections in color coordinated displays.

View attachment 174354

View attachment 174355


They don't really do any work with them. They buy them to augment their body part deficiencies.
Most of them will follow up with a post how happy their wives with their new purchase.

View attachment 174357
If I ever come home to a color coordinated garage, I will know my marriage is over. Bob took all the good stuff to his mistress' house! BTW: I didn't marry him for his tools, but they are a plus. :)
 

KingGrump

Most Interesting Man In The World
Team Gathermeister
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
8,464
Location
NYC
The alternatives to heat, IR and UV, are expensive and clunkier.

Au contraire, mon ami.

1659488752972.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: NE1

KingGrump

Most Interesting Man In The World
Team Gathermeister
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
8,464
Location
NYC
Sounds snake-oily. Do you use this?

I mean the guy looks like he's rubbing universal wax with a lint roller.


I have one. It goes on the road with me. Have used it on occasion. Not my favorite waxing method. It works but takes a bit of effort.
I used it primary for spring skiing while staying at locations where hot waxing is not feasible.
Past season for those location, I have switched to Toko liquid paraffin Spray followed by a SVST radial cork and a nylon brush.

The Ski MD dude is MIke de Santis. Owner of Ski MD. One of the most respected tuner in the US.
Many on this forum sent their skis in to him for tuning. He is usually booked several months out.
 
Thread Starter
TS
R

Rich_Ease_3051

Getting on the lift
Skier
Joined
May 16, 2021
Posts
376
Location
Sydney
I have one. It goes on the road with me. Have used it on occasion. Not my favorite waxing method. It works but takes a bit of effort.
I used it primary for spring skiing while staying at locations where hot waxing is not feasible.
Past season for those location, I have switched to Toko liquid paraffin Spray followed by a SVST radial cork and a nylon brush.

The Ski MD dude is MIke de Santis. Owner of Ski MD. One of the most respected tuner in the US.
Many on this forum sent their skis in to him for tuning. He is usually booked several months out.
Yeah I've read that thread where he's booked out months in advance.

Either this is a highly skilled tuner who sells snake oil on the side or everything we know about the waxing industry is a fraud.

And to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if it was the latter.

Case in point: AUD$700 waxing iron.
 
Last edited:

KingGrump

Most Interesting Man In The World
Team Gathermeister
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
8,464
Location
NYC
Either this is a highly skilled tuner who sells snake oil on the side or everything we know about the waxing industry is a fraud.

And to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if it was the latter.

It's not call fraud. More like marketing. :ogcool:

I know what works for me. Tried new stuff all the time. Some works. Some doesn't. The ones that work get integrated into my routine. The ones that don't - sh*t can.

1659492539436.jpeg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ogg

James

Out There
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
18,217
Either this is a highly skilled tuner who sells snake oil on the side or everything we know about the waxing industry is a fraud.
It just uses friction to heat the rubbed on wax. A tube has a small contact area across the ski, maximizing the input force. Nothing secret about it.

Cave men did the same thing with two sticks. - The original fraudsters.
 
Thread Starter
TS
R

Rich_Ease_3051

Getting on the lift
Skier
Joined
May 16, 2021
Posts
376
Location
Sydney
It just uses friction to heat the rubbed on wax. A tube has a small contact area across the ski, maximizing the input force. Nothing secret about it.

Cave men did the same thing with two sticks. - The original fraudsters.
Yeah but the temps. Iron can go up higher than 100C, which is the temp the manufacturer says to drip and spread universal wax.

Rubbing friction goes up to what temp? Wouldn't be 100C. Maybe 50C. Or 70 max if I have to guess.

Can his gadget get temps up to more than 100C? And if not, why does he think temps half or less than that is sufficient to get the same glide as a ski that's been dripped and spread and scraped as per manufacturer suggested temps?

Sounds suspect to me. Or we've been wasting our whole time dripping and spreading and scraping with irons and plexi.
 

SpeedyKevin

Getting on the lift
Skier
Joined
Apr 14, 2022
Posts
109
Location
Mammoth Lakes
I remember my first week in the formica custom cabinets and furniture shop. They sent me around asking other dudes for tools that didn't exist.. Go ask Muncie if I can borrow his Mica Stretcher.. So over to Munz's area I went asking about the Mica Stretcher.. He said that someone else had it..
Hmmm reminds me of when we used to have new folks look for the keys to the humvee or the ID-10-T form.
 

Swiss Toni

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Aug 26, 2016
Posts
277
Heat seems necessary to bond all waxes and coatings. Even with the daily spray, I believe the cork or felt is not so much a distribution tool, but to heat up the base as we're rubbing on the liquid spray.

The alternatives to heat, IR and UV, are expensive and clunkier.

With the Olympic ski wax that you linked, is that akin to a daily spray or more like the main wax?

In the case of solid ski wax heat is mainly used to liquefy it so that it can get into the base structure, I don’t think that it bonds the wax to the base, if it does it doesn’t do it very well. Unless you have arms like Popeye I doubt you could get much heat into a ski base using cork or felt.

I agree with you that the hand-held IR heaters are clunkier than an iron, you really need to rig up a rail for the heater to slide along, for which will need about 2m of wall space, the Chinese paint curing heaters are very cheap though.

According to the patent (EP3254768A1) for the ZHAW wax, UV is used to bond it to the base. As far as I know it was only ever used in racing. As TOKO went to the trouble of patenting it I would expect that they intend to use it in their commercial products, as they applied for the patent in 2016 they could have already have gotten around the need for the UV lamp and be using it in their current liquid products.

This article https://blog.newmoonski.com/2019/11...th-rex-wax-world-cup-technician-chris-hecker/ was written by a World Cup technician who works for Rex, a Nordic ski wax manufacturer it should shed a bit more light on where waxing is going.

Or we've been wasting our whole time dripping and spreading and scraping with irons and plexi.

No not at all, until recently hot waxing, scraping and brushing was accepted as the best method. It now looks like liquid wax could be a better option, nothing to be alarmed about its just progress.
 
Thread Starter
TS
R

Rich_Ease_3051

Getting on the lift
Skier
Joined
May 16, 2021
Posts
376
Location
Sydney
In the case of solid ski wax heat is mainly used to liquefy it so that it can get into the base structure, I don’t think that it bonds the wax to the base, if it does it doesn’t do it very well. Unless you have arms like Popeye I doubt you could get much heat into a ski base using cork or felt.

I agree with you that the hand-held IR heaters are clunkier than an iron, you really need to rig up a rail for the heater to slide along, for which will need about 2m of wall space, the Chinese paint curing heaters are very cheap though.

According to the patent (EP3254768A1) for the ZHAW wax, UV is used to bond it to the base. As far as I know it was only ever used in racing. As TOKO went to the trouble of patenting it I would expect that they intend to use it in their commercial products, as they applied for the patent in 2016 they could have already have gotten around the need for the UV lamp and be using it in their current liquid products.

This article https://blog.newmoonski.com/2019/11...th-rex-wax-world-cup-technician-chris-hecker/ was written by a World Cup technician who works for Rex, a Nordic ski wax manufacturer it should shed a bit more light on where waxing is going.



No not at all, until recently hot waxing, scraping and brushing was accepted as the best method. It now looks like liquid wax could be a better option, nothing to be alarmed about its just progress.

With the current paradigm, we drip and wax and scrape and brush with a wax, Swix HS8 wax for example (which is the one I use) and that lasts for 4-5 days.
1659542112789.png

And at the same time we spray and brush with a liquid every morning. Swix HS8 liquid for example (which is the one I use).
1659542175915.png



With the ZHAW UV wax, is it still gonna be the same paradigm? That is, UV in a wax (not sure if liquid or solid) that lasts a few days (twice longer than conventional wax according to the video), maybe 8-10 days?

1659542542066.png


Followed by a daily spray?

1659542576763.png


Or is it just spray and UV it and that lasts for 8-10 days? No need for a daily spray?
 
Last edited:

Swiss Toni

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Aug 26, 2016
Posts
277
I only know what is written in the article and in the patent. It was tested using Nordic skis, they said it rubbed off twice as slowly as conventional high-performance ski wax, I take that to mean that they could ski twice as far as with conventional wax. I have no idea how that equates to Alpine skiing performance. It is a lab product, it isn’t commercially viable as the UV lamp alone costs CHF 300. They would have to come up with some other method of binding it to the base material before it could be put on the market.

These products don’t seem to be waxes in the conventional sense, they seem to be hydrophobic compounds dissolved in a solvent. Swix and Toko are both owned by the same company, a family owned Norwegian investment company called Ferd. The patent for the compound developed by ZHAW is assigned to Toko-Swix Sport AG so the Swix and Toko liquid waxes could be the same product.

The reason for posting the link to the article was to illustrate the direction of travel, which seems to be away from hot waxing. Therefore, it is unlikely that any of the companies that sell irons will develop a battery powered one.
 

Tom K.

HRPufnStf
Skier
Joined
Dec 20, 2015
Posts
5,516
If a cordless waxing iron was feasible, wouldn't Swix, etc. have one for sale, or at least in the pipeline?

Surely they would love to sell a good fraction of the folks that own their current irons something new and shiny?!
 

KingGrump

Most Interesting Man In The World
Team Gathermeister
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
8,464
Location
NYC
I really do not see a urgent requirement for cordless powered everything for home ski tuning. We are usually working at a bench, indoor with power available nearby. It's not as if we are working a thousand feet out in the middle of a corn field.
What it take is simple cord management. A simple acquired skill that comes with working with tools for a while. If you are new to power tool usage, there is nothing much one can do for you. There is a learning curve to everything. Watching You Tube on a specific subject does not make one an expert.

I see some of the newbies in the trade think and act as if they are some sort of quick reaction force. The Navy seal, special forces and what not. They slide in the batteries onto the tools as if racking a shotgun. I get it. It feeds the machismo or lack of it.
I've been in the construction business for a good part of my life. Tools are simply a mean to an end. Getting the job done. Lugging around the biggest drill with the biggest battery made doesn't necessary get the job done. It will just get you tired a lot faster.

What usually get the job done is deep seated work habits, superior methodology and a good skill set. All the fancy cordless bling are mere distractions.

TBH, I wouldn't have purchased a battery for the Razortune. Except the standard power supplied was of such piss poor quality. One of the worst I have seen in the past 40 years.
 
Thread Starter
TS
R

Rich_Ease_3051

Getting on the lift
Skier
Joined
May 16, 2021
Posts
376
Location
Sydney
If a cordless waxing iron was feasible, wouldn't Swix, etc. have one for sale, or at least in the pipeline?

Surely they would love to sell a good fraction of the folks that own their current irons something new and shiny?!

Research and development is geared first for racing then filters down to consumers. Ski techs tune 10's to hundreds of skis and need a steady power supply.

Which is why Razor Tune, a consumer focused company, was first to market with a battery one.
 
Thread Starter
TS
R

Rich_Ease_3051

Getting on the lift
Skier
Joined
May 16, 2021
Posts
376
Location
Sydney
I really do not see a urgent requirement for cordless powered everything for home ski tuning. We are usually working at a bench, indoor with power available nearby. It's not as if we are working a thousand feet out in the middle of a corn field.
What it take is simple cord management. A simple acquired skill that comes with working with tools for a while. If you are new to power tool usage, there is nothing much one can do for you. There is a learning curve to everything. Watching You Tube on a specific subject does not make one an expert.

I see some of the newbies in the trade think and act as if they are some sort of quick reaction force. The Navy seal, special forces and what not. They slide in the batteries onto the tools as if racking a shotgun. I get it. It feeds the machismo or lack of it.
I've been in the construction business for a good part of my life. Tools are simply a mean to an end. Getting the job done. Lugging around the biggest drill with the biggest battery made doesn't necessary get the job done. It will just get you tired a lot faster.

What usually get the job done is deep seated work habits, superior methodology and a good skill set. All the fancy cordless bling are mere distractions.

TBH, I wouldn't have purchased a battery for the Razortune. Except the standard power supplied was of such piss poor quality. One of the worst I have seen in the past 40 years.
Depends on the task and situation. You wouldn't use a corded electric screwdriver.
 
Top