Could we have a new player in the ski boot world ... Kästle?

[Philpug]

Sporten makes their money by building skis for other folk under their own brands; if they want to get into the boot business it makes sense for them to use the same model in reverse.

I thought about this too. What makes me think that they are really serious about being one of the big players is the new Kastle EX74 it is not jsut a relabled 74mm entry level model from a "stock" mold with a cosmetic hollowtech image but the hollowtech was actually in the mold and this is a $449 ski with a system Tyrolia binding that is on par with soem $699 package skis.

 

[Tony S]

I'm waiting for the boot that has an effective durable heater built into the shell (not the liner).

• no wires to thread through liner
• no need for insole to do double duty
• nothing to disconnect or suffer wear when you remove the liner to dry and/or put boot on/off racer-style
• wiring (? do we still need wires?) more protected from stresses of flexing etc.
• better options for integrating battery in less kludgy ways

And no, heated socks do not meet my needs. So there.

 

[skipress]

Set to one side Hohenems [I assume they have close to zero production there] I ve been to Sporten and they were very serious folks making some great products for all sorts of people. There was nothing I saw that made me think wow, that's really smart but equally they were producing some great quality stuff and great prices.

I know what you mean on the 74, but that jars with their overall schtick of Kastle as a sort of BMW [I am thinking quality and 'image' more than getting too bogged down in car tests ], and also making a Dacia* but with the same badge.

Nemec is definitely a player, and a player with a bank balance [and a masters ski racer, does a lot better in events in CZ than elsewhere...], but as we all know this is a hard market to break into; you're relying in the current market on both building a better mousetrap and one of your competitors shooting themselves in the foot.

*Might not play over the pond, former 'communist' car factory in Romania now owned by Renault and making €15000 cars which sell for €12000

 

[4ster]

I am pretty sure Marc Giradelli was in the Salomon SX boot (or at least one heavily modified )

Till he literally broke them in half during a race...

Wish I could find a photo of the steel rods he had built into them for support.
IIRC, he was in Lange's by the next race.

 

[pchewn]

I'm waiting for the boot that has an effective durable heater built into the shell (not the liner).

• no wires to thread through liner
• no need for insole to do double duty
• nothing to disconnect or suffer wear when you remove the liner to dry and/or put boot on/off racer-style
• wiring (? do we still need wires?) more protected from stresses of flexing etc.
• better options for integrating battery in less kludgy ways

And no, heated socks do not meet my needs. So there.

For efficient heating of the foot, the best locations for the heating element are (in order of effectiveness):

1. Between skin and inside the sock
2. Between outside of sock and inside of liner
3. Between outside of liner and inside of shell
4. Outside of shell

Do you want to heat the environment, or do you want to heat the foot?

 

[Tony S]

For efficient heating of the foot, the best locations for the heating element are (in order of effectiveness):

1. Between skin and inside the sock
2. Between outside of sock and inside of liner
3. Between outside of liner and inside of shell
4. Outside of shell

Do you want to heat the environment, or do you want to heat the foot?

I understand basic concepts of insulation and heat transfer. Liners are very thin, especially around the toes and forefoot. I'll bet there is a way to do this.

 

[JohnnyG]

BRING ON the era of $7500 SKI BOOTS!!!

$9300 skis too!
DIOR AND AK SKI Skis - 172 cm Navy Blue Dior Oblique Motif - products | DIOR

 

[Philpug]

I understand basic concepts of insulation and heat transfer. Liners are very thin, especially around the toes and forefoot. I'll bet there is a way to do this.

Kind of like racing, you want fast, light and cheap. You can only pick two.

High performance liners are thin because we want to be closer to the shell for energy transmission. Adding insulation and elements to the liner adds volume ... thus disconnection. Skiing is a winter sport, what is the realistic goal, to be warm or minimize the cold and what are you willing to give up in performance to get it?

 

[skipress]

Kind of like racing, you want fast light and cheap. You can only pick two.

High performance liners are thin because we want to be closer to the shell for energy transmission. Adding insulation and elements to the liner adds volume ... thus disconnection. Skiing is a winter sport, what is the realistic goal, to be warm or minimize the cold and what are you willing to give up in performance to get it?

Well said that man

 

[ted]

Kind of like racing, you want fast light and cheap. You can only pick two.

High performance liners are thin because we want to be closer to the shell for energy transmission. Adding insulation and elements to the liner adds volume ... thus disconnection. Skiing is a winter sport, what is the realistic goal, to be warm or minimize the cold and what are you willing to give up in performance to get it?

Yes, but as seen in running world, tight toe boxes are unnecessary and probably detrimental to balance.
Ski boots could have thin liners for performance with thicker insulation over the toes if the shell allowed.
K2 and Roxa
seem to be going in the proper direction

 

[Philpug]

Yes, but as seen in running world, tight toe boxes are unnecessary and probably detrimental to balance.
Ski boots could have thin liners for performance with thicker insulation over the toes if the shell allowed.
K2 and Roxa
seem to be going in the proper direction

A stress on a running shoe's design is very different than a ski boots. Yes, we have seen a trend to more generous toe boxes. I am in the K2 Recon 140 Pro, so I am well aware but thet generous space is up and down, the lateral volumes too needs to be snug to the foot.

 

[Seldomski]

For efficient heating of the foot, the best locations for the heating element are (in order of effectiveness):

1. Between skin and inside the sock
2. Between outside of sock and inside of liner
3. Between outside of liner and inside of shell
4. Outside of shell

Do you want to heat the environment, or do you want to heat the foot?

0. Heat the core and let the warmed blood heat the foot.

How about Kastle boots have a thermos-like hollow cavity in the plastic around the toe. This will improve insulation at the toe. Call it "hollowtech" and color that area of the boot a different color to highlight the feature.

 

[ted]

A stress on a running shoe's design is very different than a ski boots. Yes, we have seen a trend to more generous toe boxes. I am in the K2 Recon 140 Pro, so I am well aware but thet generous space is up and down, the lateral volumes too needs to be snug to the foot.

Agree from met heads back, anything distal doesn't matter.

 

[David Chaus]

0. Heat the core and let the warmed blood heat the foot.

Doesn't work for people with circulation issues like Raynaud's and diabetes. The blood vessels restrict blood flow even when the core is warm.

Heated socks work for me, as well as an Intuition liner. Sometimes throw Boot Gloves around the boots.

 

[ted]

How about Kästle boots have a thermos-like hollow cavity in the plastic around the toe. This will improve insulation at the toe. Call it "hollowtech" and color that area of the boot a different color to highlight the feature.

They will owe you big! brilliant marketing!

 

[James]

You mean, like Apex Boots?

Christopher Walken doing commercials for them could be funny.

At least they’re different. I did demo them once, I made it over half a day. The surprise was that it wasn’t comfortable. I refused to follow their ridiculous upsizing, I think the one I ended up in was already 350mm sole
I couldn’t tighten the instep buckle without killing my foot because it lined up with the Boa knob.

It can work for the very small niche of those who teach skiing and snowboarding and are willing to tolerate a poor boot in both. Well that’s what I’ve heard on the snowboard front.

Otherwise, the “walk around in the lodge” supposed advantage just creates other problems. What to do with the frames? Leave them in the bindings? Ski falls of rack, no brakes, goes hurtling down the mountain.

Maybe the higher performing ones are better. But, the one I tried you kind had to stay over your feet. Otherwise, you commit into the turn, they take too long to follow. There was also play up in the toe inside the frame. And icy snow collects

For efficient heating of the foot, the best locations for the heating element are (in order of effectiveness):

1. Between skin and inside the sock
2. Between outside of sock and inside of liner
3. Between outside of liner and inside of shell
4. Outside of shell

Do you want to heat the environment, or do you want to heat the foot?

He needs the socks. You know that, I know that. He’s resisting prob due to the socks costing as much as the boot on sale.

Now we’ve got double walled electrified shells that heat up. Those $7,500 boots here we come.

Option 5-
A backpack powered body suit heater with an emphasis on the feet. Still gonna need special socks.

 

[skipress]

Christopher Walken doing commercials for them could be funny.

At least they’re different. I did demo them once, I made it over half a day. The surprise was that it wasn’t comfortable. I refused to follow their ridiculous upsizing, I think the one I ended up in was already 350mm sole
I couldn’t tighten the instep buckle without killing my foot because it lined up with the Boa knob.

It can work for the very small niche of those who teach skiing and snowboarding and are willing to tolerate a poor boot in both. Well that’s what I’ve heard on the snowboard front.

Otherwise, the “walk around in the lodge” supposed advantage just creates other problems. What to do with the frames? Leave them in the bindings? Ski falls of rack, no brakes, goes hurtling down the mountain.

This my take on the Apex

https://www.skitalk.com/threads/any-opinions-on-apex-boots.518/post-417509

 

[skipress]

Confirmed:

Interesting that:

• Own molds, so on the face of things not a retooled [say] Head
• "As usual, racing should form the basis. The experience gained there, will serve the development of further models for broad application, as it is in ski construction" So very race led...

 

[skipress]

At first I thought the new Head boot but the shell angles are different. Plus they wouldn't be comparing it to the Nordica, they would know that already.

View attachment 140633

So I ve had the magnifying glass out and initially I thought:

• Toe lug is a red herring, they've been sole planed etc and the lug's been routed to make sure the surfaces are parallel..
• The moulding, highlighted by Phil looks very Lange/Rossi and in fact on the Lange and Rossi it continues and turns back on itself, you can just see it in the pic and highlighted below. but...

What makes me think this is a bespoke product and not a re skin is the sole cutout, specifically where I ve highlighted.

I can't find anything else that has such a sharp 'corner'. Everything else - usual suspects [Atomic, Salomon, Nordica, Dalbello, Rossi, Head, Lange, even Rexxam] has either a rounded corner and/or a much less acute angle. That sharp corner is unique as far as I can see

So I started thinking Lange but now think this might be a bespoke model, or I suppose a Lange with the mould modified in that area?

 

[Alexzn]

Why would Kastle spend money on developing a boot? Not clear. On the other hand, Head has a successful experiment with Raptors.