Individual Review Crosson Dissenter 78, 185, taking a chance that paid off

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
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He could still sell them here.
One review isn’t more real than the other just because one is negative.
Oh sure. I totally agree with your comment about negative vs. positive.

Okay then. So he has an out and everyone is happy! Let the prospective buyers step forward!
 

Tom K.

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Return/refund instructions received. :ogbiggrin:

He could still sell them here.
One review isn’t more real than the other just because one is negative.

Well, I posted my review for the benefit of other members. And I'm not sure it was negative overall, just that these were not the skis for me. They are a superb high-speed carving ski with a very damp, unflappable GS ski feel.

The higher speed that they craved to demonstrate their best traits was just a bit more than I typically care for, and the radius was bigger than I expected, given their dimensions and the website description.

Anyhoo, bygones.
 
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ski otter 2

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Return/refund instructions received. :ogbiggrin:



Well, I posted my review for the benefit of other members. And I'm not sure it was negative overall, just that these were not the skis for me. They are a superb high-speed carving ski with a very damp, unflappable GS ski feel.

The higher speed that they craved to demonstrate their best traits was just a bit more than I typically care for, and the radius was bigger than I expected, given their dimensions and the website description.

Anyhoo, bygones.
I'm relieved you got return/refund instructions, @Tom K. !

And I don't at all feel your review was negative, except for an understandably disappointed phrase or two.

Instead, to me your review was realistic: cautionary and balancing, likely to more accurately represent the ski for both those who will be protected into avoiding it, and for those who might want it anyway.

I really meant it when I said the Dissenter 78 is like a cross between an FIS GS race ski and the Line Blade. It's not a cross between a good frontside ski and those easy-peasy Lines. It has way too many "lay it over" chops for that, so to speak, and is precise and rock solid on edge, big time, to me.

But it does have a real easy-peasy quality also, IF you can adapt to that precise race ski like carve made more accessible, or if you wish to learn that, as Bode said.

And I have to disagree with @Tom K. on one point: it does have a lot more variability in terms of turn size and speed needed than he just stated (or than one might guess based on speeds needed for even "cheater" or near race skis). In this way also, it's a bit like the Line Blade. IF one uses some modest race ski technique, this ski is notable for not taking up much room on the slope, and being able to achieve really great carves, and fairly high edge angles, with a relatively modest speed. Honest, I was carving really well with almost no speed at all - again, using a bit of SL and/or GS technique. ogsmile (But if I wanted to add speed I could charge also.)
 
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ski otter 2

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An update on the 78s:

A few observations:

Short version: I think these are likely to be a favorite spring slush ski, right up there with FIS SL skis. Man, were they fun, and versatile.
For me, this ski is dialed in at the mount point (inverted dimple) without plates, in spring conditions too.

Long version: I took them out today, Saturday, on an "old snow" spring day at Beaver Creek, first chair. (Beaver Creek "last day" is tomorrow.)

We did re-frozen, stiff groomers first thing, both steep and normal (so much fun); then groomer and other slopes that were cream cheese (the best); then groomer and other slopes that were slush - including half a run through heavy, settled slush powder about half a foot deep - yikes. The skis did famously on everything but the 6" of heavy, settled slush powder glue (though the wax at least, worked).

This ski is now my favorite "old snow" ski of the year and of my quiver (with the original Black Ops 118/185s @ +1 my favorite soft snow skis, good for anything 2-3" and greater).

I can't remember a season when my "favorites" - and "most often skied" skis - resolved themselves down to possibly so few skis, and so certainly. Throw in a longer ski for really deep (the K2 Pettitors 190) and one or two for bumps, off piste, etc (Kastle LX 92s, for soft bumps; and/or '20 170 Brahmas (downsized), for both soft and "old snow" bumps), and I wouldn't really need the rest of my quiver (hah!): what a development!


It was well after one pm, that the frozen off-piste bumps got soft enough to ski, if ever that day, with clouds coming in by then; so when I quit after one, I did not get to try these skis in those conditions. Maybe next time. (I'm still not optimistic.)

In cream cheese and slush, with a good wax, there was still more drag than under normal packed powder conditions. Driving the tips and working the flex, with that extra resistance, it felt like I would be able to overpower the skis, potentially, if I had wanted to. Since the ski is so balanced and stable when flexing, I could easily go right up to that overpowering point without crossing over - a fun sensation/control. (I never did actually cross over that.)

But this made me realize somehow that I was able to maximize the flex/carve while mounted on the recommended line (inverted dimple) without needing the elevation of race plates, seemingly, at least under typical spring conditions. Said another way, IF I had had the extra leverage/elevation/authority from plates and a more race ski binding, I might have preferred, optimally, to have moved the mount point back a bit to keep from overpowering the ski too easily in spring conditions. It just felt that way. (However, not totally sure of this unless I try such a setup, which I may still do with the second pair I bought just under the wire, before the ski was removed from online sale, at least temporarily, on at least the website).

Conclusion: if you have at least some racing background however modest, and are used to race skis, or getting there, then the Crosson Dissenter 78 might work for you too in springtime. :cool:
 
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After sleeping on it, I realized that the Crosson 78 is probably my current favorite "old snow" ski, especially among frontside biased offerings.

Incredible if they discontinue it so swiftly.

Even though Tom put a base bevel 1 on it instead of its factory 0.5, I have to think there would be some demand for it, somewhere, and at that price. Dunno.
 

Tom K.

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As everybody knows, this was emphatically not the ski for me, as detailed above.

Just posting back to note that Crosson DID honor the 30-day refund guarantee for the full purchase price.

Class act, IMO!
 

ScotsSkier

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As everybody knows, this was emphatically not the ski for me, as detailed above.

Just posting back to note that Crosson DID honor the 30-day refund guarantee for the full purchase price.

Class act, IMO!
Hmm, wonder if they want to resell your one tom. Sounds like it could be a useful coaching ski…..
 
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For me, this brings up a still nagging limitation of what I know and what is going on with these skis. I wish someone bigger, younger and with more recent racing experience had gotten a pair of these skis to try them/review them, or had done some sort of extended demo of them. Without that, I still have to wonder how the 78s will do with a bigger, younger, more powerful skier (me being older, lighter and a finesse guy only, at this point).

As @ScotsSkier expresses interest, it makes it a bit safer that he would use them for coaching, as Bode intended on the videos: that way, at least the ski would be good for some of the youth he coaches, or skiers of a variety of profiles. It might turn out it's a good ski for him also, but I'm very aware that I just don't know, given his high skill level and the differences there - lots of variables.

The last thing of concern would be that there is a real difference - for a solid racer, between a .05 base bevel and a 1. I know it would be noticeably less immediate for me. But in coaching, there are lots of skill levels, and experience levels. So a 1 base bevel might very well work with the teaching and confidence building situations. Hope so. ogsmile
 
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ski otter 2

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It's going to be a little hard to explain this, so please bear with me.

Today I skied my pair of 188/30 FIS GS Atomic G9s (hand marked flex 38/37, #15) for the first time since I started skiing the Dissenter 78 185. (This GS ski is medium flex, I believe on the softer side of medium, not sure; it is less stiff - and less poppy - than my other Atomic pair, hand marked 45/35, also I'm told medium flex, which feel notably stiffer, and are a few years older, double decks.)

It almost shocked me, the difference from the Crosson 78: the skills are overlapping but different, even though both have a lot of precise tip up front. The 78s have a softer flex, though dialed in for super carving, slow or fast. The 188/30s are stiffer, and just want another gear, with different intent/style also. It took me some runs to get back in stride with the 188/30s, just more ski but, again, also different - worth pointing out, I think.
Once I adjusted, wow. It just does more, on the high end (though less on the versatile and easy end).

(Briefly, the 188/30s like one to have the full intent for speed, less superfluous motion, just what is needed, in sync and quick - right timing and alive - even more anticipation downhill, even more quickness onto the uphill ski, etc. And they like you to have that coiled feel in one's legs and body in reserve - more there than is asked for, ready to fine tune with extra when needed, just neat. As opposed to defensive skiing.)
ogsmile :):D

If not skied as needed, the 188/30 can feel more brittle, less dampening. And they partly like a bit smoother surface than the 78s need, to perform optimally. Though skied more in sync they can handle a lot also.

Conclusion: The 78s are not a substitute for the 188/30s, although perhaps a preparation, and fun contrast that holds it own. I'm a better skier using the 188/30s regularly. And that will carry over to the 78s, in a good way. But that is only partially true in the reverse: going from the 78s to the 188/30s.

Also, I'd been semi-consciously skiing the 78s as if to fully check out how they'd be for non-racer background folk on skitalk. For example, I was often seeing how slow i could ski them and still get the full responsiveness of the flex and edge carve (pretty slow). Next time I'll do the opposite: I will push them to see how close they can come to the 188/30s: and how they will do with more intent for directness and speed.
 
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Raymond Slarver

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??? Not sure of meaning here.

I mean, I can easily imagine a ski like this on some of the groomers at, say, Sunday River?

Somewhat unseasonal post bump, but I got my ski jones today and spent some of my afternoon rifling through forums for the first time in a while.

I thoroughly agreed with and enjoyed this whole thread, because Dissenter 78s with Look Pivots were my daily driver from start to finish last season. Why, one might ask, was I on them? Why, one might also ask, would PSIA link up with this semi-obscure Year 1 quasi-boutique brand with 2 models as part of their "pro deals"? Lord only knows, but when I decided I needed new skis back in October the blowout price seemed right, so LFG.
I can't get as nuanced and detailed in my evaluation of them as ski otter 2, but I don't really need to. In regards to the above quote, mine acquitted themselves wonderfully through:

- 30+ days on whatever Hunter had to throw at them, for instructing and free-skiing purposes - so that means everything from grainy slush on Jan 1 to a 14" MLK Day bonanza to...all the other stuff Hunter is famous for.
- A killer midwinter three days of advanced clinic-ing at Whiteface - 1 day cold, hard groomer zooming, 2 days of relentless dumping and bashing over and through the piles.
- A superb long weekend at PC - again, 2 days of spectacular bluebird skis and zippy snow, 1 day of perpetual new fresh - 8-10" by the end.

I did eat shit in a slow-speed spring skiing catastrophe and crank my shoulder to end the season (at Okemo of all places) but that was 100% pilot idiocy and inattention. Skis really had nothing to do with it.

It's clearly a bit silly to come now to praise the Dissenter 78 - may it rip in peace - but I am definitely keeping my eyes out just in case any remainders crop up, and my experience with Bode's concept of skis was happy enough that I miiiiiiiiiigght drop another few bucks to reserve something from Peak, if only to kick the can on a decision to early 2023.
 
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So I'd gotten a second pair of Bode Miller Crosson 78 skis just before they shut down,
that I've mounted with Marker XComp16 bindings with 10 mm plate.

(The first pair had older Marker demo bindings on them - so that the heal would be taller than the toe.)

I got out on them today at Keystone, on their great, long groomer run.

These work, closer to a race ski in performance. Just a dream.
I like them better this way, at this point.

Well worth the effort and expense, these skis with these bindings.
This was a bet that has paid off, again. :)
 

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
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So I'd gotten a second pair of Bode Miller Crosson 78 skis just before they shut down,
that I've mounted with Marker XComp16 bindings with 10 mm plate.

(The first pair had older Marker demo bindings on them - so that the heal would be taller than the toe.)

I got out on them today at Keystone, on their great, long groomer run.

These work, closer to a race ski in performance. Just a dream.
I like them better this way, at this point.

Well worth the effort and expense, these skis with these bindings.
This was a bet that has paid off, again. :)
Interesting that their site is still up and running, and allows you to add stuff to the cart, etc.
 
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