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CSIA system revamp

geepers

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Apparently CSIA are revamping their system. More skills based.

Who knows more?
 

graham418

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Apparently CSIA are revamping their system. More skills based.

Who knows more?
Yes, it is more involved now. They have added extra models and more days to each level (except for L1)
 
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TS
geepers

geepers

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What would you like to know?

Oh, enough to pass L3 teach...

I've spent a couple of seasons getting the instructional wording down pat in terms of the 4 Tech Refs. I assume it's now going to need revision. Which may be a good thing - sometimes trying to link and describe the necessary change into one of the 4 TRs could be a bit convoluted.

This is not urgent - not much skiing for Oz folk this northern season... :( What's that expression - enquiring people wanna know.
 

Jilly

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I really don't like missing convention this year. And I suspect this year will be the end of convention. They are having 2 pro days next week at Tremblant. Not sure I can get there. We're asked NOT to travel to keep our counts down.

Guess I should go look at this...
 

Bendzeekneez

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Oh, enough to pass L3 teach...

I've spent a couple of seasons getting the instructional wording down pat in terms of the 4 Tech Refs. I assume it's now going to need revision. Which may be a good thing - sometimes trying to link and describe the necessary change into one of the 4 TRs could be a bit convoluted.

This is not urgent - not much skiing for Oz folk this northern season... :( What's that expression - enquiring people wanna know.



Pages 8-9 for specific's to teaching. The new curriculum material (Skills Framework, Physics In Skiing, Collaborative Teaching etc) are available logged in under the resources tab. In my opinion worth a read. Pour a few beers though it's long.

Big news is the Trainer Exam (placed between L3 and L4) which had 3 groups out in Sun Peaks recently; 1 pass out of 21+ L3's who are L1 Course Conductors looking to re-certify as Trainers.
 
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geepers

geepers

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Pages 8-9 for specific's to teaching. The new curriculum material (Skills Framework, Physics In Skiing, Collaborative Teaching etc) are available logged in under the resources tab. In my opinion worth a read. Pour a few beers though it's long.

Big news is the Trainer Exam (placed between L3 and L4) which had 3 groups out in Sun Peaks recently; 1 pass out of 21+ L3's who are L1 Course Conductors looking to re-certify as Trainers.

Thanks. Was going to pass on renewing membership this season as not a lot of chance of getting to Canada until 2022. Did just renew - maybe they'll need the money (?) - and there's a large amount of change to get head around. Very preliminary read - seems to make sense. Skills Framework appears to have borrowed images/concepts from Ultimate Skiing.

Be interested to get some feedback from the crew at our 'home' resort once they start doing the modules. 3 days for the Teach should work better - always seemed to be a packed syllabus with never enough time for MA work.

Trying to put a positive spin on not getting a northern ski... generally feel this is as good a time as any to have to sit one out. Give everyone a chance for the org to bed down the new stuff and tune as required.
 

rustypouch

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Is interesting. A lot more detail and depth than the technical reference. Although I'll see use the TR.
 

MattFromCanada

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Trying to put a positive spin on not getting a northern ski... generally feel this is as good a time as any to have to sit one out. Give everyone a chance for the org to bed down the new stuff and tune as required.


If it's any consolation, the material isn't even finished yet. Still a work in progress, the Level 1 material wasn't online last week, and last I checked, there are still some placeholders in the reading materials.

Personally, I'm not a fan of breaking the pathway up as much as they have. The idea that someone could be skiing at the Level 3 standard but not at the level 2 teach standard is weird for me. It's unlikely, but you could end up with a bunch of poor Level 2 candidates on their exam having to try and asses someone who's just passed the Level 3 Ski... I can see why they did it though. They want people to take more courses, even if they have no interest in teaching.

It's interesting that they've added an arbitrary demonstration to the ski exam. Somewhere out there there's someone who really likes foot to foot hops who is very excited about this change.
 

LiquidFeet

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....They want people to take more courses, even if they have no interest in teaching.....
Are you saying that CSIA allows and encourages skiers who have no interest in teaching to take their courses and go through their certification exams in order to bring in money? I"ve always wondered why they do that. Here in the USA, to register for a certification exam, the instructor's Ski School Director has to sign a form confirming that the instructor has taught a minimum of X number of hours. So we not only have to intend to teach; we have to have been teaching already and have the approval of our SSD.
 

Mike King

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Are you saying that CSIA allows and encourages skiers who have no interest in teaching to take their courses and go through their certification exams in order to bring in money? I"ve always wondered why they do that. Here in the USA, to register for a certification exam, the instructor's Ski School Director has to sign a form confirming that the instructor has taught a minimum of X number of hours. So we not only have to intend to teach; we have to have been teaching already and have the approval of our SSD.
@LiquidFeet, that may be true in Eastern, but it is not a requirement in Rocky Mountain. In fact, I took the Level 1 exam without a job or, for that matter, a decision on my part to actually teach. I skied with a gentleman yesterday in a RM clinic who just got his level 1 without employment in a ski school...
 

LiquidFeet

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@LiquidFeet, that may be true in Eastern, but it is not a requirement in Rocky Mountain. In fact, I took the Level 1 exam without a job or, for that matter, a decision on my part to actually teach. I skied with a gentleman yesterday in a RM clinic who just got his level 1 without employment in a ski school...
I had no idea. I thought the rule was from National. Interesting.
 

Steve

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Level 1 is a horse of a different color. It's the free candy to get people addicted to the process.
 

JESinstr

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Apparently CSIA are revamping their system. More skills based.
What goes around, comes around

1607100449394.png
 

MattFromCanada

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As I understand the CSIA used to have 5 skills:

Foundation skills:​
  • Stance and balance
  • Timing and co-ordination
Steering Skills:​
  • Pivoting
  • Edging
  • Pressure control


5 skills plus 3 basic competencies:

  • Centered and mobile stance
  • Turning with the lower body
  • Balance on edges
This got trimmed down nicely into 4 technical reference points:

  1. Use of all joints help maintain balance, providing the ability to manage forces acting on the ski and the skier.
  2. Turning is led by the lower body and ski design.
  3. Upper and lower body separation allows for angulation to provide grip.
  4. Coordinated movement patterns direct the forces acting on the skis and the momentum of the skier from turn to turn.
And now we're back to skills, but only 3 this time:

  • Rotational
  • Edging
  • Pressure control
Much like Pluto not being a planet anymore... timing and balance get left out, but still get an honourable mention in the handbook. At this rate however, it looks like we're on the path to "there is one skill in skiing.


There was also the fast-track to parallel, which disappeared for a while, and then came back as the gliding experience objectives:

  1. Mobility > Mobility
  2. Sliding > Gliding
  3. Stopping > Speed management
  4. Turning > Direction change
  5. Linking > Direction change

Are you saying that CSIA allows and encourages skiers who have no interest in teaching to take their courses and go through their certification exams in order to bring in money? I"ve always wondered why they do that. Here in the USA, to register for a certification exam, the instructor's Ski School Director has to sign a form confirming that the instructor has taught a minimum of X number of hours. So we not only have to intend to teach; we have to have been teaching already and have the approval of our SSD.


In Canada, you could in theory get up to a level 3 certification without ever seeing a student in real life, outside of exam scenarios. It's uncommon, but I've seen it, especially with rich kids who can afford to hire a pet Level 4 to train them up to the standard. I once had a freshly minted L3 snowboarder show up at my ski school, he had never actually taught before, and was quite shocked when he had to teach beginners. He had told me "I'm a Level 3, I shouldn't teach this level" right in front of his students. Funnily enough, he's now an examiner teaching new snowboard instructors. Problem with instructors like this is they don't have the versatility to teach scenarios that aren't covered in the courses. None of that instinct that experience brings, but on paper he's very qualified.

I think one of the reasons why there's no signoff requirement for CSIA and CASI (snowboarding) until the L4 is because of the commoditization of ski courses in this country. Many ski schools have a cottage industry going of enticing wealthy Brits and Aussies and the like to come over. For $10,000 you can train and get your level 1 and 2 in a month, and then a guaranteed job for the rest of the season. Great deal for the resorts... people pay them to work for them, plus you get choice assignments for your examiners. But none of this would be possible if you needed to sign people off first, they'd have to work, and then the appeal of the fast-track wouldn't be there for the customers. The other thing is, there's no real need to change it, the pass rate on the Level 1 is something comically high like 95%, Level 2 is 90%... Level 3 is 10% and Level 4 is 5% or less... but at the 3, in a lot of cases, you have people who have done the L1+2 express and need a L3 to get a visa to stay in the country, meaning they'll jump into a Hail Mary exam just on the off chance they'll make the cut. The 4 is just plain difficult, and as of this year, you need to write a paper application to attend the camp.
 

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