Definitive washing technique for your ski outerwear?

[Ken_R]

From Colorado Freeride Systems


Jackets

We recommend never washing your laminate jacket. Yes, that's right. Although, our fabric manufacturers do not supply this information to us, we have found that the saturating of any premium fragile high grade water proof breathable (wpb) membrane with water and detergent, will destruct its performance qualities and most likely result in a delimitation of the fabric face/ membrane and interior layers. That may occur with one wash or take several to achieve. It depends on type of detergent, type of machine and wash cycles. Saturation will occur either due to natural deterioration of DWR and or through needle holes in jacket construction. Regular outdoor use does not lead to delamination unless DWR has been worn away and or use of rubbing from things such as back pack shoulder straps, waist and chest belts occurs.

Furthermore retreating DWR repellent with products such as Nikwax, and other similar do not produce OEM level results.

If you absolutely must wash. follow the care guidelines found on Tek Wash bottles. However, we have seen very negative results from washing fragile wpb membranes.

I have a laminate jacket (gore-tex) that I must have washed 20 times. Still works great! YMMV I guess.

 

[jt10000]

From Colorado Freeride Systems

Jackets
most likely result in a delimitation of the fabric face/ membrane and interior layers. That may occur with one wash or take several to achieve.

This is wild. I'm going to assume it's false.

 

[Tony S]

Gore-Tex's advice whenever we talk with them is that most people are so worried about washing protocol that they wildly underwash their DWR gear, and the grime that builds up interferes with the DWR way more than washing really can. I personally do something like Tech Wash out of paranoia, but I think as long as you're following the tag instructions & doing it regularly you should be fine. I swear I remember one rep saying that they wash all of their gear like once a week with just regular detergent, which kind of blew my mind.

From Colorado Freeride Systems


Jackets

We recommend never washing your laminate jacket. Yes, that's right. Although, our fabric manufacturers do not supply this information to us, we have found that the saturating of any premium fragile high grade water proof breathable (wpb) membrane with water and detergent, will destruct its performance qualities and most likely result in a delimitation of the fabric face/ membrane and interior layers. ... we have seen very negative results from washing fragile wpb membranes.

Do you suppose they are saying, "don't really use it", or "it still works fine no matter how filthy it gets"? Seems like it would have to be one of those two.

Seems like Colorado Freeride Systems needs to have a talk with the Gore-Tex people.

 

[Tony S]

This is wild. I'm going to assume it's false.

Smells like CYA.

 

[cantunamunch]

Off topic for outerwear, but I have learned that enzyme based products for washing your synthetic base layers seem to destroy wool. "Defunkify" is definitely an offender. (Also is much less effective at its assigned job than "Sport Suds.") This is all first hand, but anecdotal.

Empirical?

 

[Tony S]

Empirical?

Yes. I guess if you have seen it first hand it's not actually an anecdote. But to people READING the post it will be anecdotal!

 

[scott43]

Wait, it can be washed??!

 

[silverback]

I had two TREW gear jackets that both delaminated. Both were washed 2-3 times per year with tech wash. They replaced the first one under warranty but they gutted their warranty and refused to replace the second one.

 

[cantunamunch]

Yes. I guess if you have seen it first hand it's not actually an anecdote. But to people READING the post it will be anecdotal!

I'm sure Tycho Brahe and Joseph Banks had good bar stories too...

 

[tball]

I'm in the no-washy camp. After too many washes, they never seem to be the same.

So, I've got two outfits. One I wear all the time and wash frequently, and the other I never/rarely wash and save for days when it's snowing hard.

 

[neonorchid]

Seems like Colorado Freeride Systems needs to have a talk with the Gore-Tex people.

^ or with the Polartec people. Of their Ski & Snowboard Jackets, all use Polartec Neoshell with the exception of just one jacket style that uses Gore-tex.

That said I've washed my Polartec Neoshell fabric ski pants in the SpeedQueen top loader using powdered Tide laundry detergent and to me, they are no different than when new, same for all of my other Gore-tex Pro and standard Gore-tex Ski shells and pants.

 

[Analisa]

It's important to note that Colorado Freeride Systems is using Neoshell, an electrospun PU membrane. PU is oleophobic and holds up fairly well when it comes into contact with grease, skin oils, sunscreen etc. Goretex & eVent use ePTFE as the membrane or in combination with PU. Oils degrade ePTFE, so cleanliness absolutely impacts performance.

The clothing manufacturer, not the membrane manufacturer, chooses the method for lamination. (Although, from my understanding, Gore Tex sets standards and even QAs all items that are made with their membrane products). Quality will vary, and I feel like a no-wash warning is a red flag from a quality standpoint.

 

[neonorchid]

Gore-Tex manufacturer announces availability of new PFAS-free membrane, but still uses “forever chemicals” to make its outdoor apparel and gear - Toxic-Free Future

saferchemicals.org

^ "Gore-Tex manufacturer announces availability of new PFAS-free membrane, but still uses 'forever chemicals' to make it's outdoor apparel and gear"

"Health advocates call for a ban of PFAS 'forever chemicals in products"

Industry High Five: Polartec eliminates toxic chemicals from its fabrics

Polartec announced today that it has eliminated PFAS—some of the most harmful chemicals used in gear production—across its line of products.

www.outsidebusinessjournal.com

 

[jt10000]

I'm in the no-washy camp. After too many washes, they never seem to be the same.

What is too many? Maybe there's a middle ground between never and too many.

Frankly I don't want to be seen in public in something visibly dirty. Plus, I'm pretty sure dirt undermines performance.

 

[jt10000]

^ or with the Polartec people. Of their Ski & Snowboard Jackets, all use Polartec Neoshell with the exception of just one jacket style that uses Gore-tex.

That said I've washed my Polartec Neoshell fabric ski pants in the SpeedQueen top loader using powdered Tide laundry detergent and to me, they are no different than when new, same for all of my other Gore-tex Pro and standard Gore-tex Ski shells and pants.

I have Neoshell jacket, and remember seeing a graphic online of how washing affects performance. I can't find the graphic now, but the upshot was that each wash affects it a little bit. Maybe 20 washes degrades waterproofing by half? Something like that. I remember thinking "OK, wash two or even three times a season and I'll get a number of years out of it no problem."

 

[James]

It's important to note that Colorado Freeride Systems is using Neoshell, an electrospun PU membrane. PU is oleophobic and holds up fairly well when it comes into contact with grease, skin oils, sunscreen etc. Goretex & eVent use ePTFE as the membrane or in combination with PU. Oils degrade ePTFE, so cleanliness absolutely impacts performance.

The clothing manufacturer, not the membrane manufacturer, chooses the method for lamination. (Although, from my understanding, Gore Tex sets standards and even QAs all items that are made with their membrane products). Quality will vary, and I feel like a no-wash warning is a red flag from a quality standpoint.

Last time I used my neoshell jacket (FlyLow) in the rain at Stowe, I got absolutely soaked. I had a thin Goretex one in the car I went and got to put under it.

Didn’t wash the jacket much, maybe once or twice max before that.
I honestly despise all membranes. “Waterproof/Breathable” just seems a very expensive joke foisted on us.

 

[pchewn]

I think you just need to follow the label instructions:

 

[Tony Storaro]

I use Graingers wash and repel on both work and play ski outerwear. I throw them in the washer and add extra water after the wash cycle starts. Then dry on medium heat setting to lock in the DWR.

Grangers Wash + Repel Clothing 2 in 1 Gear Wash and Weather Proofing in One Cycle, Plastic Bottle, 10 oz

This.

 

[cantunamunch]

This.

Of course, if you used ShakeDry, you could just....

 

[James]

Is Shake Dry like Shake Weights?