Different qualities of different FIS SL skis

[KingGrump]

Longevity of the edge is usually not the issue for us on all the skis we own. Our skis "flex out" before we run out of edges. That applies for all our skis. Whether they are FIS SL or wider carvers and all mountain skis. By "flexing out", I meant loss f torsional rigidity primary.

FWIW, A pair of FIS SL will hold up between 40 to 60 days of free skiing before flexing out. Much depends on the primary skier, snow condition and terrain.

 

[mdf]

40 to 60 days

every time you give a lifetime number it gets smaller. I don't like where this is headed....

 

[KingGrump]

every time you give a lifetime number it gets smaller. I don't like where this is headed....

Perhaps it's due to the additional stress we put on our skis. We have been picking up some road hugging weight lately.


Our all mountain ski generally last about 80 to 100 days. The FIS SL not so much. Probably because the FIS SLs are used in more difficult conditions and driven harder because they can actually be driven harder before giving up.

About "giving up". Sometimes, it's the ski that gives up and sometime it's the snow.

 

[Jack skis]

Sometimes it's the skier that gives up. Speaking from personal experience, regretfully.

 

[Zirbl]

Hear a lot from North American sources that you shouldn't let a shop near your edges on these skis. Four shop tunes on a non-FIS ski and the side edge is gone, those sort of figures, and a strong warning not to let a shop near your edges if you want the ski to last. Was very surprised to hear that. Pretty common for Austrian shops to offer race tunes using machines, and receive custom from owners of FIS skis. (Okay, some will also offer hand race tunes for those who mean business.) Asked a couple of Austrian shop techs as to how many tunes were in a FIS ski if they use the machine. One said 10 to 20, the other said 7 to 10, and that the side edge is usually done with before the ski's skied out. (@Brian Finch 60 days - presuming you polish daily, how many times are you taking a metal file to them in those 60 days?)
As for a rental ski, I was told they tune them up to 100 times a season.
Are most shops setting the machines differently/using them badly in North America?

 

[S.H.]

Hear a lot from North American sources that you shouldn't let a shop near your edges on these skis. Four shop tunes on a non-FIS ski and the side edge is gone, those sort of figures, and a strong warning not to let a shop near your edges if you want the ski to last. Was very surprised to hear that. Pretty common for Austrian shops to offer race tunes using machines, and receive custom from owners of FIS skis. (Okay, some will also offer hand race tunes for those who mean business.) Asked a couple of Austrian shop techs as to how many tunes were in a FIS ski if they use the machine. One said 10 to 20, the other said 7 to 10, and that the side edge is usually done with before the ski's skied out. (@Brian Finch 60 days - presuming you polish daily, how many times are you taking a metal file to them in those 60 days?)
As for a rental ski, I was told they tune them up to 100 times a season.
Are most shops setting the machines differently/using them badly in North America?

Depends on the shop (or, more accurately, the tech).

If they're only getting 10 machine tunes/ski ... get a new tech! That's absurd. Even 10 grinds/ski should be pretty doable for a capable tech, assuming there isn't major damage to the ski.

I've used a Razor Tune (a "machine") on my FIS SL skis about 30x this season. There's more than half the edge left. These are from a rep, not race room stuff. Running out of edge in a single season really shouldn't be a concern for normal people.
In many seasons of racing, I've used a metal file ~40x/season on a pair of FIS SL skis, and never really run the risk of running out of edge. That's true for both real race room product and regular FIS product. Also true for GS skis.

 

[James]

Hear a lot from North American sources that you shouldn't let a shop near your edges on these skis. Four shop tunes on a non-FIS ski and the side edge is gone, those sort of figures, and a strong warning not to let a shop near your edges if you want the ski to last. Was very surprised to hear that. Pretty common for Austrian shops to offer race tunes using machines, and receive custom from owners of FIS skis. (Okay, some will also offer hand race tunes for those who mean business.) Asked a couple of Austrian shop techs as to how many tunes were in a FIS ski if they use the machine. One said 10 to 20, the other said 7 to 10, and that the side edge is usually done with before the ski's skied out. (@Brian Finch 60 days - presuming you polish daily, how many times are you taking a metal file to them in those 60 days?)
As for a rental ski, I was told they tune them up to 100 times a season.
Are most shops setting the machines differently/using them badly in North America?

As much as we bitch about tuning, that’s completely absurd. Shops do wear out skis but it’s usually from seasonal tunes where they base grind it every time. Part of the problem is people think they want their bases pristine with no light scratches. Shops love bright yellow base because the customer can’t see shallow scratches and don’t want it ground all the time.

Is anyone with FIS race skis getting them base ground 10x or more per season? That would be incompetence on the ski’s owner and the shop.

Side edges are the least of anyone’s problems.

Fwiw, the worst machine tuned skis I’ve had were in Switzerland and Chamonix. They crawled under a pretty low bar to get that distinction, that’s for sure. Never been to Austria, but I’m sure they uphold the Worldwide skishop tradition of viewing the customer’s as a moron.

And the industry keeps cranking out $500k tuning machines that have no internal feedback of the quality of their output.

Many FIS skis come with very thin edges. This Fischer has been ground twice in it’s life. Possibly I filed it once, other than that it’s stones only so far. Edges are barely over 1mm.

 

[Zirbl]

Well, they told me the edges would be gone long before the base grind became an issue ... so another thing that runs counter to what people are saying here.
Glad the thread took this turn.

Just totting it up - my previous FIS SL ski I left to the shops on the basis that they'd do a better job than I would. Half of that time I didn't realise what could and should be achieved with polishing or it wouldn't have had gone through the machine as often as it did. Probably got 58 days, roughly 20 machine tunes, 2 or 3 hand tunes and plenty of daily polishing out of my last FIS SL. Still had plenty of rebound in it and a little bit of edge left and only became a reserved-for-poor-conditions ski due to hitting something substantial.

Shops do wear out skis but it’s usually from seasonal tunes where they base grind it every time.

You mean the machine can do a side edge without touching the base edge? When they've asked me what base bevel I want, I've said it's set, happy with it, just do the side edge, and they've said the way machine works, the bases get done as well, but not to worry because it only takes off a tiny amount. Is this nonsense too?

 

[markojp]

Hear a lot from North American sources that you shouldn't let a shop near your edges on these skis. Four shop tunes on a non-FIS ski and the side edge is gone, those sort of figures, and a strong warning not to let a shop near your edges if you want the ski to last. Was very surprised to hear that. Pretty common for Austrian shops to offer race tunes using machines, and receive custom from owners of FIS skis. (Okay, some will also offer hand race tunes for those who mean business.) Asked a couple of Austrian shop techs as to how many tunes were in a FIS ski if they use the machine. One said 10 to 20, the other said 7 to 10, and that the side edge is usually done with before the ski's skied out. (@Brian Finch 60 days - presuming you polish daily, how many times are you taking a metal file to them in those 60 days?)
As for a rental ski, I was told they tune them up to 100 times a season.
Are most shops setting the machines differently/using them badly in North America?

That's a large and universally damning blanket for a continental (big, broad, varied) market. That said, locally there's only one retailer that I feel 100% confident using and recommending to others for high quality race tunes.

Re Head FIS Sl's, they've come a long way since the black ski days.

 

[François Pugh]

Maybe that's 10 brought-in-to-the-shop-for-a-tune tunes, based on their records, but what isn't being accounted for in that number 10 is the 25 done-at-home sharpenings in between bringing them in.

 

[Brian Finch]

^ what everyone else has said.

I’m spoiled on 2 separate levels. I have “access” to top techs & usually they set up my skis initially.

I razor tune after every session.

Secondly, I have a shop that has a bitchin crew & a top tier Winterstieger that can run em thru anytime. Guys have skill.

My skis have never runout of edge…. I’ve got a few WC/ NorAm clients that I’ve seen em run pretty thin, but by that point the top sheets are wrinkled, tips/tails bent, shovels cracked & the edges can still hold.

Just an N of 1 perspective.

 

[fatbob]

A number of European resorts will end up with skis being tuned in a separate tuning industrial unit outside of the resort which services multiple retail stores/chains.

 

[Zirbl]

A number of European resorts will end up with skis being tuned in a separate tuning industrial unit outside of the resort which services multiple retail stores/chains.

Whereabout in Europe? Not seen that in Austrian resorts, only in shops in the city, where the wait time is a week, but it would make sense for large numbers of rental skis. On the other hand, in a prominent Austrian resort, it's unusual to rent a ski that hasn't been tuned, and that ski could have been returned the night before, to a shop only accessible by cable car. In all Austrian resorts I know, big and small, the machine is usually in view, the whole place smells of wax, and they'll turn a ski around for customers overnight, in a morning or within a couple of hours.

 

[Giotto]

I have a shop that has a bitchin crew

Can I be your friend?

@markojp what shop do you recommend for race tunes in the puget sound?

 

[Swiss Toni]

I was in St Christoph am Arlberg in February, every evening a van arrived at the local rental shop dropped off a roll cage full of serviced skis and picked up one with skis for service. The shop was part of a chain that has 9 shops in and around St Anton, it would be really inefficient if each shop had its own machine. The French ski rental chains were the first to centralize ski service.

Ski rental is big business in the Alps, over 60% of all skis sold here end up in rental pools. Most of the skiers visiting the big resorts rent so the chances of getting anything other than a rental service are remote.

 

[markojp]

Can I be your friend?

@markojp what shop do you recommend for race tunes in the puget sound?

Sturtevants in Bellevue. As for Marc for a race tune.

 

[Triplet]

I have skied the Volkl, Atomic and Blizzard SL skis. I greatly prefer the Volkl. I feel as one with those skis. They read my mind. Very responsive, yet predictable. In all fairnesss, the Blizzard had a poor tune job.

From which model years were all of the skis?

 

[markojp]

From which model years were all of the skis?

Did you notice the comment about 'a poor tune'? My thoughts FWthey'reW, first, ask Scotskier, then, realize tune, prep, and your boot setup probably make a bigger difference than the brand. Honestly, I've never been on a FIS SL or a true race constructed non-FIS ski that I wouldn't be perfectly happy with. The exception is non-FIS SL skis.... nope.

 

[Triplet]

Did you notice the comment about 'a poor tune'? My thoughts FWthey'reW, first, ask Scotskier, then, realize tune, prep, and your boot setup probably make a bigger difference than the brand. Honestly, I've never been on a FIS SL or a true race constructed non-FIS ski that I wouldn't be perfectly happy with. The exception is non-FIS SL skis.... nope.

Yep, i did. I was curious about the Racetigers as I haven't seen anything about them here from the recent model years. I have the luck to easily drop in a plug(as those are the only boots I can securely ski in - narrow feet and ankles) and I am aware that boots do matter when we talk about race skis.

 

[Pacobillie]

From which model years were all of the skis?

the Volkl Racetigers are from 2009 ( purchased as quasi NOS). The Blizzards were circa 2015, and the Atomics Redsters were 2019.