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DIY Molding of MIMIC liner

Philpug

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And as a Bikefitter, I wish bikes were sold without saddles, cranks, handlebars and stems. I do see why the sales guys would hate that though :roflmao:
They are sold without peddles.
 

dx111

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Interesting read, thank you. :) You didn’t notice how your liner got cooked by any chance? Heating method, time and such would be great to hear about.
No, that happened out of sight in another room. From what I recall, I doubt the heating time was much beyond 5 minutes. While boothorns were not used, my feet were in plastic bags which probably served the same purpose in terms of reducing friction and avoiding creating any folds in the process of ingress and egress.
 
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TS
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PaulE

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No, that happened out of sight in another room. From what I recall, I doubt the heating time was much beyond 5 minutes. While boothorns were not used, my feet were in plastic bags which probably served the same purpose in terms of reducing friction and avoiding creating any folds in the process of ingress and egress.

Allright. 5min seems legit taking the video from Atomic into consideration. :)
 

ScottB

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Received my new mimic liners for my Hawx Ultra XTD 130's. Had them heat molded along with my boots at my local shop. I will say the shop treated them like a normal memory fit process and did not have any of the new mimic specific tools. I would say this shop is not very good at keeping on top of the latest info. They did call the local rep, who mentioned something about the "Japanese mimic process" and the conclusion was it was not necessary. They do have the Atomic ovens and everything turned out fine. Again, I did the boots and mimic liners, and used toe caps under my socks this time. I got excellent toe room this time and I have to say the boots feel like the best fit I have ever had in my life. I skied them today on a cold day and all I can say is "success". They were absolutely fantastic. I probably didn't push them as hard as possible due to limited terrain, but they were a pleasure to ski in. They gave me a comfort fit with race fit performance. I am amazed how much I liked skiing these boots in the resort. I was on narrow light weight carvers, so not wide skis that will really stress your foot and knees. Still, there was no slop in the fit, great heel hold, and total comfort and warmth everywhere along my foot. The liners really do conform to every feature of your foot and ski boot. They seem to have just the right amount of padding to do their job. Here are some pic's of the liners and boots after the molding process. You can see the shape of the cuff nut on the inside of the boot at my ankle bone.

IMG_20201223_125000933.jpg
IMG_20201223_125249455.jpg
IMG_20201223_125301520.jpg
IMG_20201223_125321247.jpg
IMG_20201223_125340843.jpg
IMG_20201223_125633496.jpg
 

Noodler

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@ScottB - good info. It should be interesting to see how this foam formulation holds up over time. Keep track of the ski days (or even better ski hours) before it starts packing out.

I found my Intuition Utlralon based liners to be good for 100+ days before I felt they were becoming obviously packed out.
 

Joey311

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Got a new pair of Hawx Ultra 120 w/ the Mimic liner. Had some shell work widening the forefoot, as I always need done. In the past I've never had liners molded. I was told that you'd get the same result after skiing in the boots for ~10 days, and have always gone this route. Do you agree with this for the Mimic liner? Or will the liner never reach it's potential without molding?
About me:
140lb. Expert skier, 30+yrs
Ski ~30 days/yr
Thx.
 

ScottB

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Blister has a podcast up with Matt Manser from Atomic and they cover this subject. The foam part of a mimic liner will break in after skiing the boots. The mimic material, hard plastic on the sides around your ankle, will never break in without heat molding.

So the answer is you should always heat mold a mimic liner. I have always heat molded my liners, mimic or not, because why suffer for 10 days when you can avoid it? I know there are always reasons such as being too busy, but you make your choices and you live with the consequences.
 

gonzamk

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Hello, I'm Gonzalo from Argentina. I bought the Atomic Hawx 120, during a holiday trip. In the shop, the boots feel fine. Now, I can't stand more than two hours in the ski resort. Unfortunately, there is no place here with de mimic tools. So I will try to it myself... Is there a way to recognize if I had to perform the mimic and the boot molding, or just the boot??
thanks
 

ScottB

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You should mold both at the same time, that is what they do in the shop. Search for a thread on Mimic molding details. If its not in this thread, then check the Atomic Ski Boot Thread or there is one other Atomic thread that Onenerdykid posts in, he is the Atomic Ski Boot Manager and very knowledgeable. I should be telling you to find a shop that can do this, don't do it yourself, but you basically covered your situation, so good luck.

Heat molding expands the ski boot if its too tight in certain spots on your foot. Heat molding the mimic liner shapes it to your foot. You would have to give a lot more info on what you are experiencing for someone to give you useful advice. The solution to your issues is very dependent on the specific issue(s) you have.
 

gonzamk

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Thanks Scott, i read all the threads (i read all the message in Atomic Ski Boot Thread) but I did not find the answer. I thought this thread was the better place to ask
I have a problem in the ankle and in the instep of the right foot
If I have to mold only the boot, I would be easier than molding both things. Other issue is the temperature of the mimic molding, I did not find any value for it.
 

ScottB

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If the instep is too low, heat molding the boot will expand that and probably solve it. I had a friend who bought a new pair of Hawx Ultra XTD's and she was getting ankle pain when flexing the boot. The solution was to cut down the shell overlap flaps high in the ankle area (the saddle I think its called). For her, a new liner and heat molding with pads did not solve it, but cutting the flaps took care of it. Try and figure out what going on to have a better success at solving it with the right adjustment. ONK would have to respond with temperature specifics, he is in Europe, so he tends to reply overnight due to time zones.
 

Xtrpickels

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Hi Paul,

A Mimic liner will require our process and tools to get the job done in order to prevent any fit or quality issues from arising. The fitting process itself is pretty straight forward, but rather specific in order to give you the best results. If our process isn't followed or the wrong tools are used, then it can lead to issues (which is true for basically any high-end liner customization process). Our oven will need to be used at the temperature & duration we specify- normal heat stacks or hot air blowers aren't good enough because they heat from the inside out and the real Mimic material is near the outside. We make toe caps, liner socks, and a shoe horn to make the liner installation and you stepping into the boot go as smoothly & as possible. Without them (or exact substitutes) there will be risks during the fitting process. So if shops don't have the right tools for the job, then it will most likely lead to a sub-par result and you'll be pretty bummed about that. We've done a lot of training for retailers that have brought Mimic in, so at least you'll know that the shops which have the tools will do it right and you'll have an awesome fitting boot when it's all said and done.
I'd like to give some product experience from one product person to another.

Both my wife and I have have bought boots with Mimic Liners this year. She from REI and myself from EVO.
Neither retailer followed the "Mimic Process" - there were no spoons or toe caps, hers were heated on a normal heat stack. I had also called around to other shops (Front Range of Colorado) and no one was familiar with a particular Mimic process, but all were willing to let me pay them to mold my liners. Because of this I chose to have our liners molded at the respective retailers.

Given the time and effort that you have invested into the product and the continued resolve that molding is only able to accomplished by a trained shop, there really needs to be better management of the retail experience.

To be honest, I could have personally done a better job and I'm quite disappointed with the experience at Atomic retailers. I understand that you need to toe the company line. However, either the messaging, the shops, or the process needs to change to improve the experience.
 

onenerdykid

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I'd like to give some product experience from one product person to another.

Both my wife and I have have bought boots with Mimic Liners this year. She from REI and myself from EVO.
Neither retailer followed the "Mimic Process" - there were no spoons or toe caps, hers were heated on a normal heat stack. I had also called around to other shops (Front Range of Colorado) and no one was familiar with a particular Mimic process, but all were willing to let me pay them to mold my liners. Because of this I chose to have our liners molded at the respective retailers.

Given the time and effort that you have invested into the product and the continued resolve that molding is only able to accomplished by a trained shop, there really needs to be better management of the retail experience.

To be honest, I could have personally done a better job and I'm quite disappointed with the experience at Atomic retailers. I understand that you need to toe the company line. However, either the messaging, the shops, or the process needs to change to improve the experience.
Sorry you had a less-than-stellar experience with those stores. While I indeed share your frustration, like you said we put a lot of time & energy into creating these products, this is unfortunately a reality we will always encounter at retail. Atomic doesn't own these shops. We don't and can't control what they choose to learn or how they go about fitting ski boots. Each boot fitter is a bit of a rogue force and they often think they know better than a brand. We offer lots of opportunities to train boot fitters and retail staff, but again we can't force them to attend such trainings or force them to do it our way. And to add further complication to it all, retailers have new employees year after year. We often train employees one year and they leave the store the next year. It's a bit of a sh*t show to be honest, but until Atomic creates "own stores" or gets more retailers to step up their commitment to being better partners, this is going to be a reality we have to navigate. We are working on making customization information more public so that everyone can have more access to understanding how and what to do. This doesn't mean you will be able to do it at home (there are still tools you will not have) but it does mean the information will be more readily available.

To better prevent this from happening again, when you speak with a shop about customizing your ski boots, ask to speak with the main fitter. The average employee at REI or EVO is not going to be an experienced boot fitter. They are mainly boot sellers, and there is a big difference. EVO sometimes has really good fitters on staff, but not REI. The larger/more generalist retailers often don't have great boot fitters. You should look for a more specialist shop that focuses on ski boots and boot fitting. Find the main fitter and book an appointment with them, not the average employee. Even the best shops have fitters who are more experienced than others, and push to have an appointment with the most experienced ones. If you just walk in and ask to be fit, they will most likely hand you off to a less experienced employee. Booking an appointment with a trained fitter is currently the best guard against things going the wrong way.
 

cem

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I'd like to give some product experience from one product person to another.

Both my wife and I have have bought boots with Mimic Liners this year. She from REI and myself from EVO.
Neither retailer followed the "Mimic Process" - there were no spoons or toe caps, hers were heated on a normal heat stack. I had also called around to other shops (Front Range of Colorado) and no one was familiar with a particular Mimic process, but all were willing to let me pay them to mold my liners. Because of this I chose to have our liners molded at the respective retailers.

Given the time and effort that you have invested into the product and the continued resolve that molding is only able to accomplished by a trained shop, there really needs to be better management of the retail experience.

To be honest, I could have personally done a better job and I'm quite disappointed with the experience at Atomic retailers. I understand that you need to toe the company line. However, either the messaging, the shops, or the process needs to change to improve the experience.
shock horror, skier goes into generalist store and expects high level boot fitting

unfortunately ski boot fitting isnt regulated anywhere, its like the wild west out there, if you go to a specialist store you stand a far better chance of getting the job done right, even then there are a lot of stores claiming to be specialists.... believe me the real specialists are picking up the pieces every single day, trying to get skiers into the right size and volume of boot with proper support and a good set up, but every day some smart ass kid in a big box store or a slope side boot seller will tell the customer its wrong and they need a size up, is it any wonder more and more good boot fitters are leaving the profession, its not the job, its about having to convince people to actually believe you are doing the job properly when the "sellers" are shouting loud from the roof tops that the pros are wrong.

@onenerdykid described is perfectly, as a brand they can only do so much, but when you have high staff turnover and stores who because they have been in business for 20 years they know better, its a losing battle
 

Noodler

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@onenerdykid - Publicly publishing your best-practice fitting processes for your brand would certainly help a lot of folks be better educated going into the game. Wouldn't it also be possible to maintain a list of recommended shops/stores/fitters or does that get too political at the brand level? There are lists maintained by 3rd-parties to help skiers find the better fitters/shops.
 

Uncle-A

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Sorry you had a less-than-stellar experience with those stores. While I indeed share your frustration, like you said we put a lot of time & energy into creating these products, this is unfortunately a reality we will always encounter at retail. Atomic doesn't own these shops. We don't and can't control what they choose to learn or how they go about fitting ski boots. Each boot fitter is a bit of a rogue force and they often think they know better than a brand. We offer lots of opportunities to train boot fitters and retail staff, but again we can't force them to attend such trainings or force them to do it our way. And to add further complication to it all, retailers have new employees year after year. We often train employees one year and they leave the store the next year. It's a bit of a sh*t show to be honest, but until Atomic creates "own stores" or gets more retailers to step up their commitment to being better partners, this is going to be a reality we have to navigate. We are working on making customization information more public so that everyone can have more access to understanding how and what to do. This doesn't mean you will be able to do it at home (there are still tools you will not have) but it does mean the information will be more readily available.

To better prevent this from happening again, when you speak with a shop about customizing your ski boots, ask to speak with the main fitter. The average employee at REI or EVO is not going to be an experienced boot fitter. They are mainly boot sellers, and there is a big difference. EVO sometimes has really good fitters on staff, but not REI. The larger/more generalist retailers often don't have great boot fitters. You should look for a more specialist shop that focuses on ski boots and boot fitting. Find the main fitter and book an appointment with them, not the average employee. Even the best shops have fitters who are more experienced than others, and push to have an appointment with the most experienced ones. If you just walk in and ask to be fit, they will most likely hand you off to a less experienced employee. Booking an appointment with a trained fitter is currently the best guard against things going the wrong way.
Thanks for sharing and it is an honest appraisal of the industry. I always always enjoyed the company training sessions and they made me a better boot fitter. In several of the shops I worked it was common practice for me to have to fix the mistakes of my coworkers. The customer response was a good feeling when they came back and shared how well the fit worked when they were skiing.
 

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