Do cyclists have a respect problem?

[fatbob]

So, since cyclists do occasionally ride in groups, which is better, a long single file, or a much shorter double file? I feel like I can never win on this one with motorists, and I think some small percentage of them are just looking for something to "unlike" about cyclist behavior.

I'm generally talking about UK roads where the biggest problem is on a 2 lane road that sightlines are very limited due to bends and hedges or farm walls. Any overtaking opportunities are limited and there is greater risk the further and longer one has to spend in the oncoming lane. One's own lane is not risk free either due to oncoming trucks, vans RVs and SUV/BMW drivers afraid what such walls and hedges might do to their paintwork.

So I'd rather overtake 2-3 riders riding in close slipstream than abreast but group discipline seems rarely on the wheel.

 

[cantunamunch]

I'm generally talking about UK roads where the biggest problem is on a 2 lane road that sightlines are very limited due to bends and hedges or farm walls. Any overtaking opportunities are limited and there is greater risk the further and longer one has to spend in the oncoming lane. One's own lane is not risk free either due to oncoming trucks, vans RVs and SUV/BMW drivers afraid what such walls and hedges might do to their paintwork.

The opposing view is that both you and the cyclists recognise all you stated above.

But the cyclists have a better idea of how passable the road is in front of them than you do, simply because they're further forward along the sightline. Therefore riding single file is an invitation for you to pass whereas 2-3 abreast is an intentional statement of 'don't do this, not here, not now'.

That half of the argument applies to groups of similarly well seasoned, experienced, skilled cyclists - and only such.

The other part of my response has to do with group rides of mixed skill, tempo and equipment. Lateral drift is a fact of life in such groups because otherwise they accordion into each other with every tempo change, missed shift, or inability to hold line in a corner. Lateral drift is what they do for safety with regard to the other cyclists, and blocking your passing opportunity is very far down their list of awareness priorities. They're just trying to keep themselves safe from the surging/lagging/darting squirrel riders in their immediate vicinity.

Oh, and - most riders who think they're 'safe' are actually squirrels. Unless they spend a lot of time in pacelines.

Next time you see a group of 5-10 in a lane with riders abreast of each other or overlapping wheels, please recognise that ~4 of them are probably squirrels already endangering everyone.

 

[fatbob]

Yep - I'm aware of what skilled groups do - but when I see what for want of a better word are tourist groups strung out all over the place in rain on peak traffic days I genuinely do feel there is a accident waiting to happen.

 

[cantunamunch]

but when I see what for want of a better word are tourist groups strung out all over the place in rain on peak traffic days I genuinely do feel there is a accident waiting to happen.

Yes. And it's going to take a lot of riding and experience to change the riding pattern of any individual in that gaggle tourist group.

 

[Wilhelmson]

Need to read the comments section here.

Sign the Petition

Ban cyclists from riding on the roads

www.change.org

 

[scott43]

Need to read the comments section here.

Sign the Petition

Ban cyclists from riding on the roads

www.change.org

Well it IS Australia...

 

[cantunamunch]

Well it IS Australia...

On your right?

Which Passing Style Do You Prefer on the Bike?

TikTok sensation Daniel LaBelle goes viral with his passing video.

www.bicycling.com

 

[Tony S]

I’m always a bit frustrated when I watch a cyclist on the street not only blow through a red light, but do so by moving over into the crosswalk, as if that somehow makes it better.

Running red lights is flat out stupid. Running red lights by swerving into a space reserved for pedestrians, at speed doubly so.

This really ticks me off. We live close to UNR and the number of riders who haul azz down the side streets then swerve into the crosswalk like it has magic safety powers is nuts. Like Superintendent Chalmers said, "are you a pedestrian or a vehicle"?

I'm just not following this described behavior. I need a photo or a diagram or something.

 

[zircon]

I'm just not following this described behavior. I need a photo or a diagram or something.

I think what they’re getting at is a 4-way intersection where theres an all-way red and a general pedestrian signal at the same time. So all 4 will be crosswalk and bicycle blows through following pedestrians in one direction, potentially endangering pedestrian cross-traffic at the same time. Reasonably common among bike commuters in Boston.

 

[cantunamunch]

I'm just not following this described behavior. I need a photo or a diagram or something.

Ride or skate up to the intersection in the roadway. Your travel path has the red.
Make a 90 degree right into the roadway that has the green.
Make an immediate 90 degree left at the pedestrian walkway and cross during a hole in traffic.
At the far end, swerve back into your original travel path.

The funny-peculiar thing is it's actually a 1970s aggressive car driving pattern - right turn on red, U turn, right turn - designed to avoid stopped traffic stacks at the light beyond the intersection being traversed.

 

[crgildart]

I respect the mindset of saving the planet while keeping in tip top shape. Most cyclists I know are genuinely cool people... But, I do worry about them. I see cyclists rambling up and down roads I won't even take my 45 MPH scooter on because the car traffic is too sketchy to be on the bike around.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Ride or skate up to the intersection in the roadway. Your travel path has the red.
Make a 90 degree right into the roadway that has the green.
Make an immediate 90 degree left at the pedestrian walkway and cross during a hole in traffic.
At the far end, swerve back into your original travel path.

The funny-peculiar thing is it's actually a 1970s aggressive car driving pattern - right turn on red, U turn, right turn - designed to avoid stopped traffic stacks at the light beyond the intersection being traversed.

Yep. Can confirm that works.

About respect. Respect whom? The a$$holes in their cars who try to kill me eleventy gazillion times a day? The people who don't do road cycling have absolutely no clue what it feels like to get passed by TIR lorries at 30-50cm from your left shoulder, no clue how tired and exhausted and annoyed out of your mind you are after 200km. If you expect me to unclip every 100 meters just because somebody decided to place traffic lights without any particular need and no traffic coming from left or right you are gravely mistaken.

 

[wiread]

And how do you think a driver is going to feel when they plow into you after you fail to adequately “clear” an intersection? Do you think the experience will be less traumatic because they “won”?

I didn’t even bring up stop signs, because everyone rolls through stop signs at speed these days, but honestly I find that pretty silly. It’s really not hard to take a moment to at least slow down. I do that every single time I go through a stop sign on a bike, and it’s never been more than the most minor of inconveniences.

Running red lights is flat out stupid. Running red lights by swerving into a space reserved for pedestrians, at speed doubly so. I’d gladly direct anyone who thinks otherwise to the thread’s title.

How can you expect anyone else to respect your presence and space on the road when you don’t respect even the most basic rules that apply to its use?

I guess I'd hope they feel pretty bad and then move on with life. They can decide though. If it's going to affect them that badly then they should drive in a way that prevents it. Could be a cyclist, could be a child, could be a dog, could be another car could be a pedestrian stepping out from between cars. Lots of things happen on the road.

as for the rest, I don't see anybody respecting the most basic rules these days. Half of us are staring at cell phones for starters

we probably have a much different cycle culture all across this country. I don't think we have many problems around here. I remember lots of griping from a city south of here when they made it legal for bikes to roll on thru intersections provided nobody was coming. I remember lots of complaining, probably why it popped into my head when this came up.

Going thru busy areas by jetting into a crosswalk isn't it. Ripping thru busy intersections isn't it either. But then that isn't unique to cyclists

 

[wiread]

anyway, this picture was taken by me, yesterday morning coming home from the dentists office on my day off. Thankfully nobody was hurt, how, I don't know. What I "assume" happened, the light was red, but most people come off the off ramp and keep right on going hoping everyone on the surface street just allow smooth merging.

But the light was red and this guy was walking his bike and trailer in the crosswalk with a walk sign. The cement truck driver was rolling and looking left for cars the entire time and never looked for pedestrians. Thankfully no child was in the carrier and the guy was at the front of the bike and was able to jump out of the way. Otherwise i'm not sure how the cyclist didn't get pinned underneath like everything else was until he backed up.

or maybe he was riding across, either way he was on a sidewalk and in a crosswalk before it got hit and pushed forward. The light was red and as a driver you are supposed to stop BEFORE a crosswalk if one is present.

Like I said, if a cyclist breaks a rule he or she is the one that usually pays the price for not making a good decision. But drivers do this 5 billion times a day and think nothing of it. half aren't even looking to see if someone is or could be coming into a crosswalk and just assume their road is clear in front at every intersection.

 

[Andy Mink]

I'm just not following this described behavior. I need a photo or a diagram or something.

Bike comes from right on side street, hops on sidewalk and zips through crosswalk, then off side walk and back onto street. Blows stop sign, cross traffic doesn't stop. These kids are not smart enough to be going to college.

 

[Tony S]

Bike comes from right on side street, hops on sidewalk and zips through crosswalk, then off side walk and back onto street. Blows stop sign, cross traffic doesn't stop. These kids are not smart enough to be going to college.

View attachment 178211

Brilliant. Thank you! That took some effort. I appreciate it. I hope there was a cocktail to go with the napkin.

PS: This must be an urban thing.

 

[crgildart]

Ride or skate up to the intersection in the roadway. Your travel path has the red.
Make a 90 degree right into the roadway that has the green.
Make an immediate 90 degree left at the pedestrian walkway and cross during a hole in traffic.
At the far end, swerve back into your original travel path.

The funny-peculiar thing is it's actually a 1970s aggressive car driving pattern - right turn on red, U turn, right turn - designed to avoid stopped traffic stacks at the light beyond the intersection being traversed.

I do that in my car... I almost hit some person on a bike who ran the red light and went straight and didn't see me doing the right turn flip flop hack..

 

[scott43]

PS: This must be an urban thing.

It is but it doesn't really buy you anything except might danger. Just go straight through at least you're visible...

 

[snwbrdr]

I think what they’re getting at is a 4-way intersection where theres an all-way red and a general pedestrian signal at the same time. So all 4 will be crosswalk and bicycle blows through following pedestrians in one direction, potentially endangering pedestrian cross-traffic at the same time. Reasonably common among bike commuters in Boston.

Happens in CA a lot.

the bicyclist on the sidewalk, blows through the pedestrian "DO NOT CROSS" red light, while thinking he/she has the green light like vehicles. I have almost ran over some casual cyclists using the sidewalk who identifies with the green light for the road.

 

[Andy Mink]

This must be an urban thing.

Yeah, this is very common by the University. A lot of off-campus housing on the side streets and the students head over on their bikes.