Does the plate make the ski?

[Cheizz]

I am researching my next high-performance carving ski. I really like the 2021 Dynastar Speed Course/Rossignol Hero Master M19, on paper. Especially the 179 length with the 19m radius. I really like that 18-20 cheater GS radius in a full-camber direct ski. However, most of these skis come with the R22 race plate. I am sure it's excellent, but the truth is that I always just blow up my legs when I'm on a ski with a race plate. So I would rather have a ski without a plate. Luckily, Dynastar also offers this ski without the R22 plate. They put a Konect SPX 12 binding on it in stead.

My question: will the non-plated version be what I hope it will be (super stable, great edge grip, but not so tyring on the legs as the R22 version)? Or is this ski completely useless without the plate?

 

[Philpug]

I am not sure what you mean by your legs getting blown up. Using the example you are, the Dynastar/Rossi masters ski. The R22 plate with a hard mount binding is going to make a more solid interface, a better connection of the boot to the ski. A more solid interface will allow the ski to react better. The Konnect plate allows for tool free adjustability, just that right there should tell you there will be a cost in the connection.

 

[Dakine]

My experience with plates is the opposite.
Plated skis arc truer and vibrate less then flat mounted race skis.
Additionally, I'm short legged and the extra stand height is priceless.
Not plating a race ski is like putting cheap tires on a Ferrari....
I do like the Marker Piston Plate setup more than the R22 which I have on my 19m Heros.
At the higher levels there are all kinds of finely carved billet things that are made from unobtanium.

 

[Cheizz]

What I mean by my legs being blown up: can't ski a ski with a plate for more than just two or three runs without real loss of energy and control after that. It's a conditional thing for sure, but a factor.

I understand the difference between a binding & plate vs a demo binding. But the plate also adds stiffness and dampness. And it's that stiffness that realy hurts my legs. But does the plate also influence the edge grip of the ski, for example (other than the more direct connection to the boot)?

 

[cantunamunch]

But does the plate also influence the edge grip of the ski, for example (other than the more direct connection to the boot)?

Yes - particularly when the ski is fully loaded (presumably in the fall line).


Question - how sensitive is your boot setup? How comfortable would you be traversing a plated ski on one foot (without starting a turn), for example? I am starting to think your plate dislike and your Amphibio inside camber dislike are boot setup related.

 

[Cheizz]

I have two pairs of boots: Fischer Ranger Free Walk Dyn 130 @26.5 and the Fischer RC4 The Curv 130 @26.5
I have no trouble traversing on one leg (either on Racteiger GS or SL or on any other ski, really). I tried the Deacon 76 Pro and I think the Racetiger GS Pro (both with plate), also on one leg traversing (it is one of my demo moves haha) - again, no problem.

I experience the 'blown up legs' problem also on other quite heavy and demanding skis. Bonafide, Brahma... It's more of a condition/muscle/lazyness problem than anything else, I think.

 

[ARL67]

I am no front-side superstar, but ended up putting on a Marker piston-plate ( in SL config ) and Race XCell 16 binding on my recent new 2019/2020 Laser SX 170. They became way too stiff for me, and a tail that really let itself be known. I even moved the binding forward 1 hole but that didn't help either. Prior to that, I did a half day demo on the previous version Laser SX 170 which had the standard Stockli/Solomon SP12 demo-binding, and liked it a lot. Then I bought a cheap well-used version of that same SX ski to further validate my love of the SX. This convinced me to go All-In on a brand-new SX, and anoint it as my front-side ski for the next many years. Fail. My next plan was to remove the piston plate and install the bindings flat, but in the meantime I found a nice set of Kastle MX67 170 which have been much easier to ski and a ton o' fun for what I need. I sold the SX for a minor loss, but learned a lesson about not over-gunning my ski vs my abilities. YMMV

 

[cantunamunch]

^In the same situation (over-locking tail) I would have shifted the binding back 1 hole from nominal.

 

[Andy Mink]

Could it be that you just ski harder/more aggressively on a plate mounted ski leading to fatigue?

 

[Cheizz]

Could it be that you just ski harder/more aggressively on a plate mounted ski leading to fatigue?

Probably I need/give more energy to bend them the sma amount as non-plated/less stiff skis

 

[flbufl]

You may want to try the VIST SpeedLock superlight plates. It supposedly adds no stiffness to the skis.

If the cheater GS skis plus the plates is too stiff, the master GS plus the same plates will be even stiffer.

Probably I need/give more energy to bend them the sma amount as non-plated/less stiff skis

 

[Cheizz]

If the cheater GS skis plus the plates is too stiff, the master GS plus the same plates will be even stiffer.

Hence my question about the master GS without the plate...

 

[flbufl]

I think without the race plates. You mostly lose 2 things 1) stack height. 2) free flexing of the skis under the bindings, because most race plates are designed with floating screws.

Both of them affect the edge grip. But I do not know how much...

Pates also dampening the skis. As Phil mentioned above usually race plates bindings combinations also have solid interface thus have better power transferring.

Hence my question about the master GS without the plate...

 

[flbufl]

It just occurs to me that you may also want to try fiddling around the plate setup.

I do not know much about the Ross plates, but by looking at the picture, I think it should be similar to the Marker Piston which have several stiffness setups.

The mechanism is very easy to understand. By using the round washer or the square washer, you make the screw floating or fixed. For the least stiff setup, you should only have 2 fixed screws per ski/plate, the rest are all floating with the round washers.

Hence my question about the master GS without the plate...

 

[Freddo Bumps]

You may want to try the VIST SpeedLock superlight plates. It supposedly adds no stiffness to the skis.

This system interests me a lot.

 

[ted]

" the truth is that I always just blow up my legs when I'm on a ski with a race plate."

This statement to me shouts out ramp angle issue. Plates are generally flatter than consumer bindings.

The only way to know for sure is to get out a pair of calipers and measure.

 

[Cheizz]

" the truth is that I always just blow up my legs when I'm on a ski with a race plate."

This statement to me shouts out ramp angle issue. Plates are generally flatter than consumer bindings.

The only way to know for sure is to get out a pair of calipers and measure.

Interesting. I have had the 'blown up legs' also on a few other skis that didn't have plates. Blizzard Brahma with (I think) demo Griffons, to name just one. Bonafides too (same binding, I think). Heavy, stiff skis and my legs do not match well.

 

[François Pugh]

Interesting. I have had the 'blown up legs' also on a few other skis that didn't have plates. Blizzard Brahma with (I think) demo Griffons, to name just one. Bonafides too (same binding, I think). Heavy, stiff skis and my legs do not match well.

Please remind me how much you weigh. Stiff skis require a lot of speed to bend for light weight skiers, or failing that they require good form and extra effort (in the form of foot pull-back, loading the tips, etc.) the better the form the less extra effort required. Since I lost a lot of weight this has become more noticeable. Being lazy myself, I just ski faster rather than make the extra effort (although I am always seeking form improvement).

 

[Mike King]

Perhaps read the realskiers.com review of the Kastle RX12: https://realskiers.com/ski-reviews/rx12-gs-2/

 

[Cheizz]

Please remind me how much you weigh. Stiff skis require a lot of speed to bend for light weight skiers, or failing that they require good form and extra effort (in the form of foot pull-back, loading the tips, etc.) the better the form the less extra effort required. Since I lost a lot of weight this has become more noticeable. Being lazy myself, I just ski faster rather than make the extra effort (although I am always seeking form improvement).

Haha I'm not a lightweight. 87 kg / 192 lbs. I am not an agressive or sporty skier though. But I do like stable skis. I have had the 2017 Völkl Ractiger GS for hard snow for a couple of seasons. Now I have the Nordica Spifire 76 RB FDT.