Downside to Marker Kingpins on piste use, risks

[Chuck danache]

I have an unused set of Marker Kingpins that are collecting dust and am wondering the downside of using them mainly at the resort. Would appreciate hearing from those with experience in this regard.
Thanks!

 

[anders_nor]

older models tend to break at pins, also there is no proper DIN toe release, no toe suspensions.

to flip it around, whats the upside?

 

[BMC]

If you‘d asked this question 5 years ago many would have said “little downside” for an AT 50/50 binding. The downside is it skis worse than an alpine binding, because of the pins in the toe. Plus it’s notably more dangerous than a normal alpine binding.

In the 50/50 space there are now better offerings, like the Salomon Shift and the Marker Duke PT. They’ll work similarly to the Kingpin on the way up, but are better and safer on the way down.

Dont get me wrong though. The Kingpin is still a good AT binding. I use one. I just wouldn’t use it on a ski where I wanted to do lots of in bounds skiing, particularly on firmer snow.

 

[Rod9301]

it probably is a lot more fragile than alpine bindings, just like the shift

 

[Slim]

I am not sure about fragile, most of it is pretty solid aluminum (with the exception of the first gen pins falling out issue).
I also read plenty of reviews that it skis quite well. Good enough for inbounds? That depends how picky you are.

I think the biggest reason not to, is safety.
As @anders_nor mentinoed, it doesn’t release laterally at the toe, like an Alpine binding or Vipec/Tecton. This increases the risk of lower leg fractures. (But might decrease the risk of knee injuries).

Then there is the pin-socket interface: since it is so small, tiny variations in dimensions have large effects on binding performance. This makes tech bindings inherently more variable in their release and retention.

As @BMC mentioned, there are better options for this use.
Or You can get alpine bindings very cheaply.
Then mount the Kingpin on a dedicated touring ski (or at least one that is split 80/20 touring/resort).
Or sell it. This is the year that touring gear is hard to find.

 

[Snowflake2420]

I used a Kingpin primarily for a travel ski where I did a small amount of touring. It was great. It does not ski exactly like an alpine binding and as noted is missing some of the safety features. However, I think it skis really well for what you get. With that said you're not getting a lot of weight savings these days vs. the Duke PT 12 and Shift, which have superior safety and ski-ability. The Kingpin M Werks slots in pretty nicely between the Alpinist and Duke PT weight wise.

I've since sold my Kingpin set up since it was quite heavy with the ski it was on and it's very rare I need that burly of a binding for what I do. I'm either touring or at the resort with very little crossover.

All this said I wouldn't use a Kingpin at the resort on a daily basis because of the pin toe.

If I were you I'd sell them, get an alpine binding and then if you want to try touring in the future get a lighter dedicated set up to try it out or invest in the newer technology if you want the crossover binding still. Sell the kingpins now and get some money back before they are totally obsolete.

 

[Lauren]

I am not sure about fragile, most of it is pretty solid aluminum (with the exception of the first gen pins falling out issue).
I also read plenty of reviews that it skis quite well. Good enough for inbounds? That depends how picky you are.

I think the biggest reason not to, is safety.
As @anders_nor mentinoed, it doesn’t release laterally at the toe, like an Alpine binding or Vipec/Tecton. This increases the risk of lower leg fractures. (But might decrease the risk of knee injuries).

Then there is the pin-socket interface: since it is so small, tiny variations in dimensions have large effects on binding performance. This makes tech bindings inherently more variable in their release and retention.

As @BMC mentioned, there are better options for this use.
Or You can get alpine bindings very cheaply.
Then mount the Kingpin on a dedicated touring ski (or at least one that is split 80/20 touring/resort).
Or sell it. This is the year that touring gear is hard to find.

This right here covers it. ^^^

I have a Kingpin set up, and I will say, it skis very nicely. There is very little compromise in the downhill capabilities. I am not a "brute force" type skier, so someone more aggressive than myself, may find more compromise with the pin style toe. That being said, I rarely ski them inbounds due to the safety factor and I have a very similar ski (same model, different years) with an alpine binding.

 

[Nobody]

Me too , have a Kingpin 10 stored at home, collecting dust. Bought it for wifey, as I have a pair of Gotama with Baron (AT frame bindings) for freeride (also have skins, but the main purpouse of skins and Barons on the Gotamas is to use in case of emergency). Not yet mounted on her skis as we haven't yet taken to AT, waiting for her knee surgery (totally busted her knee ligaments while...lo and behold, cleaning home). Since she doesn't like the complete pin set (dynafit and so on) feeling unsecure in the downhill, I bought the Kingpins for her. Given al lthe time is passing, I am now tThinking to shave off some weight from my set up an install the kingpin on the Gotama,nevertheless hesitant to do it as the Goats are a bit old and might see replacement soon (at which point I will look for a complete new set, with either the new Duke PT or alpinist or M -Werks, depending which direction I will head, toward more AT or stay in the freeride "range" of things). In any case I am skiing with the Gotamas inbounds only while transferring to and from the "fields of joy"...

 

[Pequenita]

Another agreement on the safety-related concerns.

The only reason I'd use the existing kingpins for a dedicated resort setup would be due to short-term considerations of finances. Long-term considerations would include the cost of an injury.

 

[anders_nor]

older design kingpins has the pins break. but overall pretty darn solid, so solid your knees hurt?

 

[neonorchid]

The Marker Duke PT Rips Harder Than Any Alpine Touring Binding

For a small weight penalty, the new system offers tech-pin efficiency and pro-level descending. Outside spent the past 11 months testing it.

www.outsideonline.com

... "hybrid bindings like the Marker Kingpin ($650) and Salomon Shift ($600) came close to the platonic ideal of an AT binding capable of sending. But the Kingpin still suffers from that too-rigid feeling at the toe. (Again, it doesn’t release laterally.)" ...

-

... "Shift’s toe piece compares to the best alpine offerings, its lightweight heel and limited elastic travel mean it doesn’t feel like one on the way down. Specifically, it doesn’t produce as much downward pressure on the heel of your boot, so in a powered-up turn, the G-forces can overcome the binding and result in lateral slop. In my testing, I couldn’t feel that in powder, but I could feel it on hardpack, where that loss of power translates to a less-secure feel and edges that don’t want to bite as hard." ...

-

... "If the Shift is a freeride hybrid that sacrifices some small amount of downhill performance for climbing efficiency, then the Duke PT is one that sacrifices touring efficiencies for expert-level charging." ...

 

[Nobody]

Another agreement on the safety-related concerns.

The only reason I'd use the existing kingpins for a dedicated resort setup would be due to short-term considerations of finances. Long-term considerations would include the cost of an injury.

older design kingpins has the pins break. but overall pretty darn solid, so solid your knees hurt?

Having the Kpin @ home, already, I would use them, but only for a freeride setup, and as said, would ski that setup on the groomers only when/if transferring from one field of pow to another
Now that the downsides of the pins at the toepiece have been mentioned, I recall that the one occasion when wife used an AT setup , did not like the feeling of the connection to the point that refused to ski down to the base (btw she is much, much better than me on the way up, when it comes to working a sweat, she is unstoppable), so was considering the Kpin for the improved connection feeling provided by the heel piece...an alternative would be to find an F10 or F12 frame binding and use that for her and the Kpin (10 din) for me...we will see...

 

[anders_nor]

get her on duke PT 16's and heavier, should slow her down a bit on the up as well! :p

and probably more confidence on the down

 

[Tony Storaro]

but I could feel it on hardpack, where that loss of power translates to a less-secure feel and edges that don’t want to bite as hard." ...

My findings exactly. That's why I am considering replacing the Shifts on my SR95 with alpine bindings or just leave them as they are and buy SR88 with alpine bindings.

 

[anders_nor]

My findings exactly. That's why I am considering replacing the Shifts on my SR95 with alpine bindings or just leave them as they are and buy SR88 with alpine bindings.

duke PT16, they feel 100% like a jester, maybe even more solid due to more weight.

 

[Nobody]

get her on duke PT 16's and heavier, should slow her down a bit on the up as well! :p

and probably more confidence on the down

duke PT16, they feel 100% like a jester, maybe even more solid due to more weight.

Her ski I plan to convert for AT duties (Movement with a waist of 95mm) are now mounted with Jester bindings...I might give the PT (maybe not the 16) a thought...oookay more money to cough up....
Methinks I will end up selling the Kpin10s...

 

[Slim]

@Nobody , I really like the Fritschi Tecton in that category, with (near) alpine binding performance, including elasticity at toe and heel, and lateral release at the toe. It still has the easy transitions and weight closer to a true tech touring binding.

 

[anders_nor]

Her ski I plan to convert for AT duties (Movement with a waist of 95mm) are now mounted with Jester bindings...I might give the PT (maybe not the 16) a thought...oookay more money to cough up....
Methinks I will end up selling the Kpin10s...

you can reuse rear holes for the PT from a jester. no moar rear holes at least.