Electric edge tuners (Razor Tune, Rhombus, Swix/Toko): looking for advice

[Ivan]

I'm thinking about buying an electric edge tuner: while I can sharpen edges by hand, this process takes quite a bit of time. I want to sign up for a masters training program, so I'll probably need to tune my skis pretty much weekly; we have 5 skis in out family in total; have two small kids; both my wife and I have full-time jobs... All in all, finding enough time to tune skis by hand can be pretty challenging.

Anyway, I've read most of the older threads on electric edge tuners, and it seems that most people here prefer the Razor Tune to the Swix Evo Pro/Toko World Cup. However, there is also the Snowglide Rhombus, which is a bit more expensive than the Razor Tune but still in the price range that I would consider. From reading the description, I like the fact that it's easier to change the side edge angle on the Rhombus than on the RT, but on the other hand the RT can come with several different wheels while the Rhombus doesn't (and the price of extra wheels is pretty steep).

I was wondering if anyone here has any experience with the Rhombus or could compare the Rhombus and the Razor Tune. And in general while there are quite a lot of reviews of the RT online (as well as of the Swix/Toko), there is very little info on the Rhombus, so I'd appreciate any info.

 

[Philpug]

TOKO Tuning Products -- 30% Off

Ski Vise Freeride Stable fixation device for securing freeride, freestyle and jumping skis in position. When preparing the edges, the skis can be secured both in their normal 90° position and angled 60° position.Includes 2 ski stopper holders. The sturdy centre fixation device opens up to 155 mm...

www.skitalk.com

30% off the Toko one. I have been using that for a couple of years and it works great!

 

[Dave Marshak]

The Rhombus looks really nice, but you could get a Razor Tune with a battery pack for the same price. I never change edge angles, but if I did I would want to use spacers instead of an internal cam that may or may not go back to the same spot every time, so that's a plus for RT.
I prefer to work with the ski edge up, so my Swix EVO with the battery power I added is perfect, but that's a minority opinion.
Definitely get battery power. That takes all the wasted motion out of the whole job.

mm

 

[anders_nor]

pics of evo with battery power? somebody do a hack with 12V out of a pack or something?

 

[Dave Marshak]

It's not much of a hack. I used a Black and Decker drill battery with off the shelf parts, but it works perfectly: https://www.skitalk.com/threads/battery-power-for-my-edge-grinder.23610/
If you do something like that, be sure to add a fuse somewhere.
dm

 

[Atomicman]

I prefer and own a Razor-Tune because it lays flat on the ski base all the way across the ski. Not a fan of the machine "hanging " off the edge with the side edge up.

Both the Rhombus and the Razor-Tune lay across the base with the base facing up. Very solid! Shim plates are easy to change and if the wear they can easily be replaced. Battery pack is a no brainer!

 

[Dave Marshak]

I looked at this again and I think the Razor Tune is a better design than the Rhombus. The grinding wheel of the RT os spring loaded to provide constant pressure. The entire Rhomgus moter is spring loaded for the same reason. but that means that there is mire weight on the sliding connection which theoretically makes it more subject to binding. Worse, when the power cord trips on the bindings it will put more pressure on the edge.
Get a RT or a Swix with a battery pack.

dm

 

[bbbradley]

A handful of my racing friends with racing kids all have the RT and swear by it. Fast tunes and sharp skis. If it weren't for the price, I'd have one too.

 

[mdf]

TOKO Tuning Products -- 30% Off

Ski Vise Freeride Stable fixation device for securing freeride, freestyle and jumping skis in position. When preparing the edges, the skis can be secured both in their normal 90° position and angled 60° position.Includes 2 ski stopper holders. The sturdy centre fixation device opens up to 155 mm...

www.skitalk.com

30% off the Toko one. I have been using that for a couple of years and it works great!

I've only used my new Toko once, but I agree it is pretty easy to use. The hold & motion feels pretty similar to what you do when hand-tuning, except for the added need to pay attention to the landing direction.
I was afraid it would be too heavy to feel if it was in the right position, but that was not a problem.

I've never handled the competitors, so I can't compare. But I don't see any reason to advise against this one.

I do find @Dave Marshak 's battery hack idea very appealing. Maybe if I rig up a ceiling hanger it will help with cord management.

(I second @Tony S 's request in the other thread for more battery details -- parts list, assembly instructions, tricky things to watch out for? I'm sure I could figure it out, but I'd rather lean on dm. Maybe if I had a 20V battery sitting in front of me it'd be obvious. All my battery-powered tools use the smaller cylindrical batteries. I'll look online at what types of batteries are available.).

Edit - from other thread, I understand dm's hesitance ... I'll have to google and see if it is obvious what to buy.

 

[KingGrump]

All my battery-powered tools use the smaller cylindrical batteries. I'll look online at what types of batteries are available

If your batteries are Milwaukee M12, This will probably work as a converter.


OTOH, the smaller "12v" plug type power tool batteries do not put out constant full 12v.

For other batteries just google 12v battery adapters for your specific battery brand.
For Dewalt 20v.

Inline fuse holder.

Barrel plugs. (This is just a sample) Must verify for specific size.

Couple pieces of velcro and you're done.

 

[Dave Marshak]

If your batteries are Milwaukee M12, This will probably work as a converter.


OTOH, the smaller "12v" plug type power tool batteries do not put out constant full 12v.

For other batteries just google 12v battery adapters for your specific battery brand.

The Swix grinder works better with an 18v or 20v. I doubt that 12v would be usable.

dm

 

[Dave Marshak]

Couple pieces of velcro and you're done.

Velcro isn't strong enough. I used Scotch Extreme interlocking tape.

dm

 

[KingGrump]

The Swix grinder works better with an 18v or 20v. I doubt that 12v would be usable.

dm

Hence the caveat.

Velcro isn't strong enough. I used Scotch Extreme interlocking tape.

dm

Depends on the type of "Velcro" utilize.

 

[sparty]

FWIW, I've gone from working with a weekend program to working with a full-time program this year, one side effect of which is spending a fair bit of time running a Tri-One. For those not familiar with it, the Tri-One is one of the earlier edge tuners, with a much higher price point than those being discussed here. It's far beefier than the Swix/Toko device, which is the only other one I've used in person; I don't think the Swix device would hold up particularly well to the volume of skis we do with the Tri-One.

With that said, just about every other aspect of the Swix Evo is more user-friendly than the Tri-One. The Tri-One requires manual adjustment of cutting depth/edge pressure, while the Evo is spring-loaded. The Evo has detents at full-degree bevels; the Tri-One requires loosening a set screw, adjusting to the desired bevel (based on a not-so-easy-to-read scale), and then tightening the screw. I wouldn't put a lot of money on a bet that I'd be able to replicate the same bevel after moving it (and we just keep the program Tri-Ones set at 3 degrees). The Tri-One tends to create more of a hanging burr, as well, which then means a bit more work to remove it.

While I do agree with the concerns about balancing any of the above tools on the side edge (versus the ones that sit on the base), the more I do it, the less I find it problematic. I have found that, as long as I have enough slack in the cord and don't catch it on the binding or the vices, it's pretty easy to manage. Using the Tri-One has made me appreciate the Evo even more.

 

[hbear]

I looked at this again and I think the Razor Tune is a better design than the Rhombus. The grinding wheel of the RT os spring loaded to provide constant pressure. The entire Rhomgus moter is spring loaded for the same reason. but that means that there is mire weight on the sliding connection which theoretically makes it more subject to binding. Worse, when the power cord trips on the bindings it will put more pressure on the edge.
Get a RT or a Swix with a battery pack.

dm

Haven't used the Rhombus, but as a FYI, the designer of the Razer Tune (I spoke in depth with him years ago) basically took the SnowGlide (which I have) as a reference and rebuilt the RT to a more affordable price by reducing complexity, precision and cost of materials used. Great machine for the masses for sure.
The Rhombus was designed by the same guy that designed the Snowglide....the issue you raise with binding due to motor cradel is a non-issue. The Snowglide is built the exact same way and still is the standard on the WC.

 

[Ivan]

Thank you everyone for your replies. Sorry I haven't posted anything here earlier. My plans have (somewhat suddenly) changed, so I've decided to postpone the purchase of an electric edge tuner. First, the liners in my Lange World Cup boots have worn out completely, so I've decided to get the BootDoc foam liners; second, I've pulled the trigger and got the Lenz heated socks (race boots are really cold). That's quite a bit of money spent in a very short time, so electric tuners will have to wait.

 

[Philpug]

That's quite a bit of money spent in a very short time, so electric tuners will have to wait

Resistance is futile.

 

[Dave Marshak]

Resistance is futile.

Says the guy who owns a ski shop?

dm

 

[Philpug]

Says the guy who owns a ski shop?

dm

I don't own a ski shop ... at least not in the traditonal sense, I have a ski workshop. There is a difference.

 

[Ivan]

Resistance is futile.

By the way, I'm getting my BootDocs tomorrow from Dierer at Alpina Ski Shop because of the recommendations that I've read on this forum