Electronic ski instructor

[brucen46]

Can this really work?



Does this mean some of you are going to be out of a job in the near future?

 

[jimtransition]

Can this really work?



Does this mean some of you are going to be out of a job in the near future?

I am already out of a job because of corona!

Carv is interesting for sure, maybe for some people it will replace instructors. I suspect for the demographic that I ski with, they might get carv, and combine it with instruction.

 

[Aquila]

I am already out of a job because of corona!

Carv is interesting for sure, maybe for some people it will replace instructors. I suspect for the demographic that I ski with, they might get carv, and combine it with instruction.

I'm interested in this device and I would be that latter demographic. I already take lessons, and this would be a useful way to practice skills between lessons - it's so hard to have any idea if you're doing something right in skiing, without seeing a video of yourself or having an instructor watching you and telling you. I know I frequently end up with too much weight on my inside ski without noticing at all....

 

[graham418]

There is already a fairly comprehensive thread on this elsewhere on this site, with lots of input from the developer

 

[D. Trenker]

Maybe if the sensor is made small enough and thin enough this can be used to monitor other activities, and we can finally know if we are doing it right.

 

[cantunamunch]

There is already a fairly comprehensive thread on this elsewhere on this site, with lots of input from the developer

I'm still waiting to hear about Android Snowcookies.

Maybe if the sensor is made small enough and thin enough this can be used to monitor other activities, and we can finally know if we are doing it right.

Hmm, not sure I need the performance anxieties in those other arenas but if I can make the local Strava leaderboard on that ...

 

[crgildart]

Can you use it to cut the lift line on a powder day?

 

[mister moose]

I like the idea, and some might find it useful. Developing a heightened awareness of both where the foot pressure is, and where the ski pressure is, and then how that affects performance is a very good thing. But that's why we have nerves in our feet, to feel it. Is a digital map going to get us any farther down the road in this goal? If you ski to a computer program instead of what the ski itself is telling you, is that better? So I obviously have a mixed view, and am happy to wait for larger consensus.

And then there's this:
Many times when skiing and talking technique the conversation went
"You know, you're doing x"
"Oh, no, I'm quite sure I'm not"
"Well how about I video you, and you can see it."
"Sure, let's do that"
......

"I can't believe I'm doing x!"

Whereupon their skiing does not change one bit.

I'm not sure Carv does anything different than video - it gives you a record of how you ski. There can be some discovery there. But being able to change your ingrained habitual methods is something neither electronic miracle does for you.

 

[LiquidFeet]

I like the idea, and some might find it useful. Developing a heightened awareness of both where the foot pressure is, and where the ski pressure is, and then how that affects performance is a very good thing. But that's why we have nerves in our feet, to feel it. Is a digital map going to get us any farther down the road in this goal? If you ski to a computer program instead of what the ski itself is telling you, is that better? So I obviously have a mixed view, and am happy to wait for larger consensus.

And then there's this:
Many times when skiing and talking technique the conversation went
"You know, you're doing x"
"Oh, no, I'm quite sure I'm not"
"Well how about I video you, and you can see it."
"Sure, let's do that"
......

"I can't believe I'm doing x!"

Whereupon their skiing does not change one bit.

I'm not sure Carv does anything different than video - it gives you a record of how you ski. There can be some discovery there. But being able to change your ingrained habitual methods is something neither electronic miracle does for you.

This would be an interesting thread - How skiers change deeply embedded bad habits? I'd enjoy reading how people have approached changing their own deeply embedded habits, and what instructors know about how their clients approach changing their habits after a lesson pointing out an issue and its solution.

Want to start a thread addressing this?

 

[Blue Streak]

Can this really work?



Does this mean some of you are going to be out of a job in the near future?

I notice Tom Gellie on the "51 turns" comment. I wonder how he is involved.

 

[Bendzeekneez]

I notice Tom Gellie on the "51 turns" comment. I wonder how he is involved.

Can confirm he is a product tester, developer and ambassador for the brand. A Level 4 I know here in the West has just been offered the same. Cool product

 

[Blue Streak]

For what it's worth, ski schools really do sell "experiences." A good group lesson develops a sense of camaraderie that can't be duplicated with an app. And a private lesson can result in a great friendship.

We would all be better off, if we just turn off our electronic devices when we ski.*


* (with exception of using them to connect to other people or contact ski patrol).

 

[brucen46]

There is already a fairly comprehensive thread on this elsewhere on this site, with lots of input from the developer

Oops, sorry. I didn't realize this product has be around for a couple of years already.

 

[Mike King]

I've been skiing with Carv to try to understand what it can offer and to see if it can really help my own skiing. I believe the product can assist, but there are a number of strengths and limitations it has.

The ways that I think it can possibly help is by providing near real-time feedback on a specific element of ski performance, such as fore/aft balance, outside ski pressure, etc. You can put the app in a mode called "monitor" and give it an item to track, say fore/aft balance. It will provide a score for the turn a few seconds after the finish of the turn. So while it isn't exactly real time, it does provide feedback sufficiently close to the time of your performance to be able to experiment and receive feedback on your success. A downside is that the metric is for the whole turn, so if you are, for example, moving pressure along the ski from the front of the ski to the tail through the phases of the turn, its a bit abstract as to how the score relates to what you did.

There's a lot of good that a digital unit like Carv can provide. I used the fore/aft and the outside ski pressure metrics extensively in getting my skiing off of the ground. But Carv is not a substitute for a ski instructor. It isn't going to effectively look at the whole picture of your skiing and give you feedback on the body mechanics that are most likely to improve your skiing. It is, in my opinion, a useful compliment to professional instruction, but not a substitute.

Mike

 

[Wannabeskibum]

I got Carv last year and have commented on my experience in that thread. I have maybe a dozen days using it with different skis and it is interesting to compare some of the metics such as edge angle and edge pressure with different skis. I have gotten some good insight into my skiing and coupled with skiing with high level instructors, I find it to be a nice tool in my Arsenal.

 

[Mattadvproject]

I've been skiing with Carv to try to understand what it can offer and to see if it can really help my own skiing. I believe the product can assist, but there are a number of strengths and limitations it has.

The ways that I think it can possibly help is by providing near real-time feedback on a specific element of ski performance, such as fore/aft balance, outside ski pressure, etc. You can put the app in a mode called "monitor" and give it an item to track, say fore/aft balance. It will provide a score for the turn a few seconds after the finish of the turn. So while it isn't exactly real time, it does provide feedback sufficiently close to the time of your performance to be able to experiment and receive feedback on your success. A downside is that the metric is for the whole turn, so if you are, for example, moving pressure along the ski from the front of the ski to the tail through the phases of the turn, its a bit abstract as to how the score relates to what you did.

There's a lot of good that a digital unit like Carv can provide. I used the fore/aft and the outside ski pressure metrics extensively in getting my skiing off of the ground. But Carv is not a substitute for a ski instructor. It isn't going to effectively look at the whole picture of your skiing and give you feedback on the body mechanics that are most likely to improve your skiing. It is, in my opinion, a useful compliment to professional instruction, but not a substitute.

Mike

You should be a part of the Carv Development Community on Facebook Mike. Your feedback would be really valuable I'm sure. If you are interested, let me know and I can see if I can get you invited in.

- Matt

 

[martyg]

I like @Mike King s summary. Carv is a tool, like any other.

 

[Mike King]

You should be a part of the Carv Development Community on Facebook Mike. Your feedback would be really valuable I'm sure. If you are interested, let me know and I can see if I can get you invited in.

- Matt

Sure!

 

[Mike King]

i Know some instructors disagree with this, but there’s empirical research that shows that using external cues to learn a motor control skill results in quicker learning and higher rates of retention. an examiner told my group that this was a subject for fall examiner training this season in PSIA-RM.


What occurred to me is how valuable a near real-time feedback mechanism like Carv can be in providing both the external cue and the feedback. As I said above, Carv doesn’t replace the usefulness of an instructor, but I’m starting to believe it could make a lesson much more valuable.

it would be interesting to set up an experiment to test if that hypothesis is true.

mike

 

[Mattadvproject]

Sure!

I sent you an invite to their private Facebook user group which has to be approved by a moderator. They let me into their group and I hadn't even used my Carv units (still haven't had time!), so I'd hope there would be no problems for you Mike.