Enforcer 88 vs 94

Philpug

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Everybody posting so far on these skis is focusing on the width. I skied these two skis back-to-back yesterday and there's a lot more going on here. The 88 isn't simply a narrower 94. These skis are very different; like night and day. The 88 has been significantly "detuned". According to the rep it has a thinner core and it feels like it. The 94 is much smoother, damper, more stable. It feels like a much more substantial ski. The 88 would be fine for a lighter less powerful skier.
Having skied both the 88 and 94, I didn't feel a signifcant difference in strength between them and I definately don't feel the ski is dumbed down at all. One of my ski buddys out here, a recent guest on SkiTalk Live, Robbie Huntoon, besides skiing a WC SL a lot has the The Enforcer 88 as a regular Palisades ski, and Robbie is far from a lighter less powerful skier.
 

Noodler

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Having skied both the 88 and 94, I didn't feel a signifcant difference in strength between them and I definately don't feel the ski is dumbed down at all. One of my ski buddys out here, a recent guest on SkiTalk Live, Robbie Huntoon, besides skiing a WC SL a lot has the The Enforcer 88 as a regular Palisades ski, and Robbie is far from a lighter less powerful skier.

More data points. I have no dog in this "fight"; only passing along my personal observations (and they're quite fresh after skiing them back-to-back in the exact same conditions).
 
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Tbone

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Everybody posting so far on these skis is focusing on the width. I skied these two skis back-to-back yesterday and there's a lot more going on here. The 88 isn't simply a narrower 94. These skis are very different; like night and day. The 88 has been significantly "detuned". According to the rep it has a thinner core and it feels like it. The 94 is much smoother, damper, more stable. It feels like a much more substantial ski. The 88 would be fine for a lighter less powerful skier.

Personally I hate when manufacturers "dumb down" the narrower skis in a line-up. Note that this isn't the case with the current K2 Mindbender 90 vs. 99 (among other examples).
Having skied these back to back I really appreciate your input. So in your opinion, the 94 may be a better option? Is it quick enough on the groomers? How does the 94 do at carving the frontside? Thanks
 

ski otter 2

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Here in Colo I often ski with a guy on the 88s almost every day, maybe five out of six days a week (him, not me). He does not ski on a clean carve edge almost ever - he slightly slarves on groomers. The 88 he got for off piste and bumps, he says. Demoing it, I found that made good sense, from how it skied for me - a bit vague at the carve, compared to the Enforcer 93/94s, bottom line, which surprised me at the time. Not so great on edge comparatively, but damp and good at pivoting moguls/off piste.

You can read the Blistergear review - and their all mountain comparison charts in their magazine, for about the same evaluation, pretty much what @Noodler just said after his demoing both skis (most recent versions) just yesterday - except they found the two skis to be more similar than I or @Noodler did (them skiing in Colorado also, not back East). But the 88 they liked for its off piste versatility, good in bumps and off piste - not so much for its groomer/ice carve.
 
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ski otter 2

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Yes, the 94 carves better here in the Rockies (softer snow than back East), but I would pick other skis for holding an edge on Eastern hardpan, etc., as @Henry suggested. A frontside-biased ski, or an all mountain that leans towards groomers/ frontside, would do it. Something like Blossom Whiteouts, maybe. Or the Stöckli Laser AX. Or the Volkl Kendo 170/177. That is, IF you are a carver.

P.S. For some, the Blizzard Brahma 88 still fits the bill also, though it's gotten stronger on piste, harder in moguls for many, with recent changes.
 
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ski otter 2

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And after further consideration, I misspoke about the Blistergear reviews/comparisons of the two skis. I have to apologize.

While the Blistergear treatment of the two skis over the last two years contains accurate descriptions, including of the Enforcer 88 as having vague turn initiation and carving, that it is perhaps better for those who ski more off piste; and of the 94 as being more burly and precise than its predecessor, among other things, in summary their conflicting observations and placement of the two skis seems inconsistent and misleading a bit overall. Sorry I muddied the waters.

P.S. Both those Ski Essentials videos were done in warm spring snow conditions, whereas the demo yesterday was overcast, snowing, around 20 degrees and with more firm, cold snow conditions - especially as the slopes got skied off and icy.
 
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Magoo

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I know that the Enforcer series is sized for width now but i think I read they also took out a sheet of metal for the 165 and 172? ? Is the Enforcer 165 and 172 the same build as the Santa Ana?
 

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Hm, I asked Blister directly if they knew how similar the Santa Ana 88 and 93 were/if they'd had anyone on the SA88, and they commented that although they hadn't had anyone on the production version of the SA88, "the men's equivalent Enforcer 88 & 94 feel really similar to each other".

That's their opinions, anyway. I only have personal experience with the Santa Ana line up so nothing else useful to add.
 

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Noodler

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Science to the rescue: Comparison of the Enforcer 88 and 94

(It takes a few seconds for the all the graphs to generate)

Here are some interesting data snippets regarding the flex comparison:

Enforcer 88 EI Index: 8 / 22 / 38 / 24 / 11
Enforcer 88 GJ Index: 15 / 30 / 46 / 28 / 13

Enforcer 94 EI Index: 10 / 25 / 45 / 27 / 13
Enforcer 94 GJ Index: 16 / 34 / 51 / 31 / 15

I know most readers on this site aren't familiar with these flex measurements, but fellow golfers might be. Here are the explanations from the SoothSki site.

Bending (EI) Stiffness Index​

Bending stiffness is the measure of how hard it is to flex a ski. The stiffness index is a five-zone measure of the ski's stiffness, from tip to tail. The higher the bending stiffness, the more you need to push into the ski to flex it and the more stable it will be at speed. Skis with lower bending stiffness are easier to turn and skid.

Torsional (GJ) Stiffness Index​

Torsional stiffness is the measure of how hard it is to twist a ski. The stiffness index is a five-zone measure of the ski's stiffness, from tip to tail. Skis with higher torsional stiffness have better edge grip in icy or hard conditions, while skis with lower torsional stiffness are easier to turn and skid.

And here's the full Guideon how to use the ski comparison tool.

What these numbers are telling us is that these two skis are quite different. They do not simply vary only by their widths. The Enforcer 94 is a much more substantial ski (as I noted in my first post in this thread). These flex differences change how the 94 will ski in comparison to the 88. Please re-read my first post as my thoughts there are directly supported by this data.

I want to thank @AlexisLD for making this service available to the skier community. When I checked out their site last season, this new tool was the missing piece. Now that they have made this freely available, I believe that the more technically-inclined among us will find this data incredibly valuable. :golfclap:
 
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Prosper

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If you’re set on the Enforcer, why not demo both the 88 and 94 in different lengths to take the guesswork out of it? If you share a bit more about how you ski technically and what you generally like about a ski you’ll likely get some recommendations about other skis that might be better match for you than the Enforcer or it could confirm that it’s the right ski for you.
 

Bad Bob

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@Noodler post above (and a 1st cup of coffee) got me thinking. There was a time when you would flex every pair of skis of a model and length in a shop to find a matched pair. Dynamic printed the flex of a pair on the ski to insure they matched, and there were differences. Racers today will test a dozen pairs of the same ski to find their race skis.
Is there still a noticeable difference between pairs of the same ski in the same length? If so, how does this throw off the science?
 

Philpug

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@Noodler post above (and a 1st cup of coffee) got me thinking. There was a time when you would flex every pair of skis of a model and length in a shop to find a matched pair. Dynamic printed the flex of a pair on the ski to insure they matched, and there were differences. Racers today will test a dozen pairs of the same ski to find their race skis.
Is there still a noticeable difference between pairs of the same ski in the same length? If so, how does this throw off the science?
Augment matches flexes today. K2 is another company that used to match flexes too. As they say, there are lies, damn lies and numbers printed on ski boxes. There was a time when we could put some in ski flexes and comparing them between models but with different rocker profiles and shapes, where that comparison used to be linear, it is now three dimensional. Don't get hung up on the numbers.
 

Bad Bob

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Augment matches flexes today. K2 is another company that used to match flexes too. As they say, there are lies, damn lies and numbers printed on ski boxes. There was a time when we could put some in ski flexes and comparing them between models but with different rocker profiles and shapes, where that comparison used to be linear, it is now three dimensional. Don't get hung up on the numbers.
Phil, am I to interpret your comment to mean; 'keep flexing'?
 

Noodler

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@Noodler post above (and a 1st cup of coffee) got me thinking. There was a time when you would flex every pair of skis of a model and length in a shop to find a matched pair. Dynamic printed the flex of a pair on the ski to insure they matched, and there were differences. Racers today will test a dozen pairs of the same ski to find their race skis.
Is there still a noticeable difference between pairs of the same ski in the same length? If so, how does this throw off the science?

So this does beg the question regarding how SoothSki gathers its data. Is there a representative sample set tested or is it simply one pair of skis? There will always be variances due to the manufacturing tolerances.
 

Noodler

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Augment matches flexes today. K2 is another company that used to match flexes too. As they say, there are lies, damn lies and numbers printed on ski boxes. There was a time when we could put some in ski flexes and comparing them between models but with different rocker profiles and shapes, where that comparison used to be linear, it is now three dimensional. Don't get hung up on the numbers.

The article referenced is absolutely true when the only numbers you're working with are those printed on a ski top sheet. SoothSki changes the game...
 
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