• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

European Hut Trip / Ski Mountaineering Set Up

PowHog

Getting on the lift
Skier
Joined
Jan 2, 2021
Posts
205
Location
Eurozone
Considering the probable/likely ice ski tracks in Ortler, I'll revise my suggestion of "wide" but I'll stay with "rockered and solid."

Virtually all modern touring purpose skis these days come with an at least slightly rockered tip and flaired, kicked-up tail for better release.
Aside from width and sidecut they still differ in flex, here you have a point since purpose and weight (think additional heavy backpack) factor in significantly.
 
Last edited:

James

Out There
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
24,930
Would we call this survival skiing?
Hagan’s video for their Core 89 ski.

 

Slim

Making fresh tracks
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Posts
2,986
Location
Duluth, MN
@SkiFiore , I’m guessing you read the Blister review of the Superwolf? It does sound pretty darn ideal for your use, with the one caveat, that your length would have a lot shorter radius than the 178cm’s 18m radius.

They make the tips and tails narrower in the smaller sizes, why not even more? It would make the smaller sizes lighter for smaller skiers too (keeping ski weight:body weight ratio more similar)


Fischer My Transalp Carbon 89 might be worth a look. Backline rates it high in firm snow, even in challenging couloirs, while still being lightweight and easy to ski.
And BD Helio 88.



For that Hagan 89, they say it shines in firm and uneven snow, but requires excellent, precise, technique in powder. Best for lighter weight skiers.
 
Last edited:
Thread Starter
TS
Snowflake2420

Snowflake2420

I70 is Life
Skier
Joined
Dec 25, 2016
Posts
464
Location
Denver
@Slim Yes that Blister review definitely carries weight, especially coming from Luke, who seems to like similar skis to me.

I'm hoping next fall demo events will be back on. Bentgate Mountaineering traditionally puts one on at Loveland, hopefully, it's back and I can actually ski some of these.

I'm a little torn between a mid - heavy to touring ski vs. a light alpine ski. Even with looking for a smaller sizes I'm finding I'm spoiled for choice.

I have skied light gear before. I had Voile Superchargers 154cm with Zed bindings, unfortunately with heavy boots (Scarpa Freedom). Between the skis being very directional plus too heavy of boots, it wasn't a lot of fun for me on the down (the uphill was great and very noticeable). Lesson learned.
 

Bruno Schull

Getting off the lift
Skier
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Posts
364
@Skifore, I completely understand the tension/uncertainty between a mid/heavier touring ski and a light alpine ski.

I got a pair of Salomon all MTN 95 skis for touring. I'm much bigger than you, about 6'4" and 210 lbs, so the 95 made more sense than the 88, but I can basically support everything that Blister and others have said about that skis...it's incredibly versatile and competent and impressive...for what is is, a light, directional, touring ski. And yet, I still find myself wanting "more ski." If I did it again (and I might change for next season) I'd get a wider, heavier, more rockered ski, with a lighter binding. For me, that would be a ski in the 50-50 category, with a weigh target of about 1850 grams. For you an equivalent 50/50 ski would be much lighter in absolute terms. Its actually not so easy to find a lighter, more rockered ski--the Line Vision 98 comes to mind, about 1500 grams with real rocker (see below), but I think the shortest length is 172...probably too long for you?

About rocker, as PowHog pointed out, nearly all touring skis these days are described as having some "light" tail rocker and/or taper, but it's nothing in the league of skis like your Black Crows Birdie or the Blizzard Sheeva I mentioned. I'm looking at some skis right now, and the tail of my Salomon MTN 95 resembles the tail of my dedicated piste carving skis far more than it does that of my rockered all mountain skis.

So, yes, modern touring skis tend to have tail "rocker" but that's a little like how the industry talked about "all-mountain" skis about 5-10 years ago (and still often today) which were really just slighly wider piste skis with some light tip rocker. Go to Blister and look at the rocker profile pictures of the Majesty Superwolf, for example. (by all accounts a great skis, like the Salomon 88 and 95). The tail of that ski is basically flat! There's really not any real rocker.

In my experience (and this is just my perspective) in any kind of snow where you have to be "in" the snow and not "on" the snow, including powder, but also any dense heavy snow, soft snow, crud, ice, and so on, the narrow and relatively flat tails of piste skis and light touring skis just sink down and they're hard to release, especially with a tired body, heavy backpack, light boots and bindings, a directional stance, and so forth. To maneuver these skis, you have to be going fast, and/or your timing and weighting/un-weighting and really just everything about your technique needs to be really, really good to make those skis fun, and safe. Then there is the whole question about damping, suspension, and so forth.

I think the lighter alpine ski needs to stay in consideration. I'll say it again: with a light binding and a mid/heavy boot, I don't think you'll really notice the weight on the way up. It's sort of like how, when they reach the high mountains, some Tour de France champions have been known to switch to heavier more durable wheels for their bicycles, to mitigate the risks of the descents...

But it all depends on your priorities and skills. If you have a classic background on alpine skis, and really dialed technique, you'd probably do fine on modern light touring skis.
 

Slim

Making fresh tracks
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Posts
2,986
Location
Duluth, MN
@SkiFiore
Doesn’t Cripplecreek have their demo gear anymore?

Since it's spring now, I would think it would be much nicer demoing now, than in the fall, where conditions wouldn’t be very representative for spring touring.

Does Bentgate not rent anything this season? On the website I can’t seem to pull anything up.

Since you live in Denver, and spring ski touring/ ski mountaineering season is just about starting, it sure would be nice to be able to try some day trips on some different gear.

Even if that means paying $100 for a days rental, it would let you try it in the conditions you plan to use it in: skiing up frozen slopes and skiing down hard, icy or slushy descents. ( and hopefully some great corn too, but that isn't really going to challenge any ski, so for demoing, the worse conditions the better maybe?)
 
Thread Starter
TS
Snowflake2420

Snowflake2420

I70 is Life
Skier
Joined
Dec 25, 2016
Posts
464
Location
Denver
@Bruno Schull Thanks for the insights. As the waist width narrows, rocker seems to go away. DPS seems to have some skis that still maintain good rocker at narrower waist width, but very light, very expensive, etc.

This year my touring set up is Atris Birdie, Marker Alpinist, and Hawx Ultra XTD. Very reasonable weight for what I do and performs extremely well. Basically I want this setup, but narrower waist. I have the Sheeva 10 actually, and love that ski too. Sheeva 9 would be doable, shaves a little weight off what I have now.
 
Thread Starter
TS
Snowflake2420

Snowflake2420

I70 is Life
Skier
Joined
Dec 25, 2016
Posts
464
Location
Denver
@SkiFiore
Doesn’t Cripplecreek have their demo gear anymore?

Since it's spring now, I would think it would be much nicer demoing now, than in the fall, where conditions wouldn’t be very representative for spring touring.

Does Bentgate not rent anything this season? On the website I can’t seem to pull anything up.

Since you live in Denver, and spring ski touring/ ski mountaineering season is just about starting, it sure would be nice to be able to try some day trips on some different gear.

Even if that means paying $100 for a days rental, it would let you try it in the conditions you plan to use it in: skiing up frozen slopes and skiing down hard, icy or slushy descents. ( and hopefully some great corn too, but that isn't really going to challenge any ski, so for demoing, the worse conditions the better maybe?)

Most shops are selling off demo gear at this point. Cripple Creek is demoing in the mountains, but not near me unfortunately.
 

James

Out There
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
24,930
Uugh, I dread this whole thing. I dislike carbon skis in general, never tried a light touring ski. I meant to get out and try some touring skis, but that place has closed.

For that Hagan 89, they say it shines in firm and uneven snow, but requires excellent, precise, technique in powder.
That used to be most skis. ogsmile
Now we just cheat all the time, even on piste.
From 20 years ago, a look back. Geez, the Explosiv was 37m even in a short one-

 

Ken_R

Living the Dream
Skier
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Posts
5,775
Location
Denver, CO
I'm looking into trips for next spring, such as the Ortler Route in Italy (multi day touring with a focus on skiing off peaks) or a multi day ski touring / mountaineering trip in Alaska.

I'm an avid tourer in Front Range Colorado and ski Black Crows Atris Birdie 160 cm with Marker Alpinist bindings and Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD 115W. This set up has been perfect for Colorado touring, however, I realize I could go lighter for a multi day type trip and save a lot of energy. Most guiding companies recommend a ski waist widths below 95mm. This is "skinny" in my book and hard to accept as I tend to enjoy wide, playful skis with rocker that still have some backbone.

Has anyone done these kinds of trips and what is your advice on ski set up? I'm also open to lighter boots.

I'm currently considering Black Crows Camox Freebird 160cm, Elan Ripstick 94W, and Zag Ubac 95 Lady 158cm. I'm 5'1" so that somewhat limits skis I can consider and I'm focused on skis <160cm. I typically ski on lengths at least 160 cm or greater.

I fortunately don't need to make a decision on this soon, but wanted to see if I'm on the right track. Thanks!

95mm its not so skinny. A light ski with a decent tip width and some rocker will get you up on top. Its not like you are gonna choose a heavy stiff ski with 2 titanal layers, full sidewalls and full camber. Those trips look more like climbing than skiing so I would go light on the skis and bindings. The Camox are excellent skis that should be really good most days even here in Colorado. You will get a lot of use out of them for sure. I would avoid skimo type skis, you will hate them. :roflmao:
 

slow-line-fast

Out on the slopes
Inactive
Joined
Feb 3, 2021
Posts
932
Location
snow
Thanks everyone for the response thus far! I'm hoping to demo the Camox Freebird. Majesty Superwolf also looks promising and comes in small sizes.
There is also a majesty superwolf carbon, same sizes as superwolf and a bit lighter. Ski Rando Mag rates the carbon almost as good as the non-carbon for downhill performance, much better for versatility, and of course much better for skinning (lighter). I haven't skied it or spoken with anyone who has.
 

slow-line-fast

Out on the slopes
Inactive
Joined
Feb 3, 2021
Posts
932
Location
snow
I would avoid skimo type skis, you will hate them. :roflmao:
I think at least we all would agree on that: avoid skimo equipment, unless you are training and competing in skimo. I watch them ski down and think, that looks a bit more comfortable than XC skaters.
 

Slim

Making fresh tracks
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Posts
2,986
Location
Duluth, MN
I think at least we all would agree on that: avoid skimo equipment, unless you are training and competing in skimo. I watch them ski down and think, that looks a bit more comfortable than XC skaters.
That’s true, If by “skimo” you mean “ski-mountaineering-racing”.

But if you mean actual ski mountaineering, well that was part of @SkiFiore ’s use for this set up, so those skis, would seem like a viable option (especially as she already has a longer, wider, rockered set of touring skis).
 

PowHog

Getting on the lift
Skier
Joined
Jan 2, 2021
Posts
205
Location
Eurozone
Boy that thread turned into some rocket science. :ogbiggrin:

That’s true, If by “skimo” you mean “ski-mountaineering-racing”.
But if you mean actual ski mountaineering, well that was part of @SkiFiore ’s use for this set up, so those skis, would seem like a viable option (especially as she already has a longer, wider, rockered set of touring skis).

This pretty much sums it up.:beercheer:
 
Thread Starter
TS
Snowflake2420

Snowflake2420

I70 is Life
Skier
Joined
Dec 25, 2016
Posts
464
Location
Denver
I was able to demo the Volkl Blaze 94 W 158 cm today and was really impressed. I skied in the resort today with spring conditions and saw just about everything except breakable crust. The rocker lines are quite deep, but on the subtle side. The ski held an edge well and had a high enough speed limit for me, quick edge to edge. Definitely interested in this as a touring ski. I was surprised the very directional mount didn't bother me at all and worked perfectly with the ski shape.
 

Slim

Making fresh tracks
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Posts
2,986
Location
Duluth, MN
Sorry, OT
@SkiFiore , interesting to hear. That is one I had on the list for my oldest daughter next year.

Did you get into any moguls?
How did you feel the tails where? Forgiving or locked in if knocked into the backseat?
 
Thread Starter
TS
Snowflake2420

Snowflake2420

I70 is Life
Skier
Joined
Dec 25, 2016
Posts
464
Location
Denver
@Slim

No I didn't it was very firm off piste. Generally I didn't feel the ski was punishing. Because of the mount point I was much more mindful to stay on top of it, but the rocker made it very easy to turn in just about any radius.
 

charlier

Fresh Tracks
Skier
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Posts
615
Location
Seattle & Rossland, B.C.
Based on my limited experience skiing in the Alps and have skied between from different huts, mostly in Switzerland. I would suggest Blizzard Zero G, Salomon MTN, or even Atomic Backland W skis, 88-95 (exception for the Women’s 98 Backland). These skis are relatively light, but ski very well. The Blizzard Zero G skis are superb skis on firm snow, with relatively stiff tails. With powder, all of these skis will be fine. Skis such as Elan Ripstick, Blizzard Sheeva, or Black Crows are relatively heavy for Euro hut-to-hut. FYI, I use an Elan Ripstick in the PAC NW for touring with a heavy pack in a Maritime snowpack. It is not a light set-up.For touring in Europe, I would use my Zero G skis without a second thought.

The K2 Wayback skis get very good reviews, but... the skis are relatively soft and suffer on firm snow and are a bit wimpy. For the OP, whatever ski and boot combo you decide to purchase, use them all the time in Colorado backcountry - dial in the skis and boots. Also, make sure that you are in very good physical shape and feel comfortable in variable ski conditions and skinning on steep firm slopes with a 45 liter pack with and without ski crampons. Touring in Colorado is really different than spring touring in Italy, Switzerland, etc. Consider visiting the PacNW for spring volcano skiing.

The Alps - the scenery is outstanding and the food is better than anything you will experience in North America. If you need help finding a guide, let me know and I can make a few gentle suggestions.
 
Last edited:

PowHog

Getting on the lift
Skier
Joined
Jan 2, 2021
Posts
205
Location
Eurozone
Re K2 Wayback: I was looking into the same ski until a shop tech told me it is basically the successor of the Shuksan, which I still own. He said it's very mainstream, meaning pretty soft so that many people like it. That was enough to steer me away from this ski. Definitely wanted a more substantial plank with better edgehold where the K2 was somewhat lacking so opted for the Dynastar M Vertical instead.
 

Sponsor

Staff online

Top