EV or no EV?

[raytseng]

This is a very good question to me. You already have rolling blackouts. What happens when more and more convert to ev. This is the biggest hurdle in my opinion. Fire up the coal and gas plants?

I think in practice, if it really got that bad that here really is a natural disaster or demand surge that would cause electricity on the grid to be unavailable, there will also be a run on fuel as well; you are in the same boat as the EV owners.

You can just look at the recent Texas power outage as realworld example. People went and bought all the gasoline to run generators; and all the gas stations had huge lines and were out of fuel, so you couldn't get gas either.
Energy is somewhat convertable/interchangeable, so if the infrastructure is failing that much that there is not enough total energy (of any form) to meet the demand; you are not going to be protected from that infrastructure failures because you have an ICE vehicle.

 

[crgildart]

Problems solved?

 

[dovski]

EVs don't work for me currently. Won't get me to the mountains without a long charge, not enough convenient charging stations, etc. We are making progress, but I think we are at least 10 years away before one will make sense for me. Will take a breakthrough in battery technology and a huge investment in the grid and charging infrastructure to get to point where the EVs will work for most of us.

So I both agree and disagree with this post. currently there are not an EVs on the market that work for me to take to the mountains, but that is because I will drive for 5-8 hours and there are 5 of us plus 10-15 pairs of skis. I have a model x and it won't take a ski box on the roof, plus the battery performance in winter requires more frequent charging. Now that said we have friends who drive their Model X on ski trips in the winter but there are only 3 of them and they fit their skis inside the car. So it is possible and the charging infrastructure is there to make these trips possible. That said I do not think it is ideal so have an ICE SUV we use for ski trips. I do however think that within the next 2-3 years there will be several great options that meet these needs. The Rivian is a possibility though I worry about its range. The Cybertruck on paper will do the job, but we do not know when that will become real. There are however dozens of EV SUVs and truck coming to market in the next 2 years and all will boast increased range and some will even have systems to handle the cold weather. Personally I have a reservation for a CyberTruck as it checks all the boxes for what I need and has the range I would want for a winter vehicle.

 

[anders_nor]

EVs are a PITA vs normal for skiiing, new EQS and ix50 are promsing though. I hate recharging for 1 hour to drive 2 hours each way to ski. but its quite possible to do.

 

[James]

if you loose something of the dock or cruise ship there, you cannot retrive, even just a few feet from land, it can be sevral hundred feet deep, and some places up to 3000 feet deep!

a buddy has a boat he trailers arounds on fjords to drive around, you can go flat out for hours, soooooooo vast. done some pwc hooning around there, was reported for "enviromental crimes" ... someone didnt like the pwcs...

We took one smallish boat ferry to the other end of one and didn’t see a single boat until the end some 3-4 hrs later.

That photo was from the top of the Tram at Loen, 2017. It was brand new then. They didn’t have open group via ferrata I think, so I didn’t do it the day I had. Looks pretty cool. Do they do AT skiing there in winter?

@elemmac , here you go, from the website. When you’re not touring hydro. I think it’s about 120m down in the middle. You can go around it.

Via Ferrata Loen — Loen Skylift

and the longest Via Ferrata bridge in Europe

www.loenskylift.com

 

[Lauren]

@elemmac , here you go, from the website. When you’re not touring hydro. I think it’s about 120m down in the middle. You can go around it.

That's awesome.

Alright...Norway is on the bucket list now.

 

[anders_nor]

you can also summer ski a lot of places near the fjords, some places into the fjords & start the rando from boat

 

[Jwrags]

Can the engineers or smart car guys explain why the auto makers don’t marry a larger electric motor to a drive shaft and transmission to decrease energy consumption like ICEmobiles? Are electric motors just too efficient to see enough energy savings from a geared transmission to be worth the complexity and weight?

 

[cantunamunch]

start the rando from boat

Are electric motors just too efficient to see enough energy savings from a geared transmission to be worth the complexity and weight?

There are conversion kits that go through the existing transmission.


Electric motors are *almost* good enough to run completely tranny-free, and they are so torquey that you need BEEFY trannies - $$$, weight and which also have to run through the ideal place to have batteries.

There is an inefficiency hitch when trying to run a torque-from-zero motor at high speeds. Two-speed trannies would be conceptually better, but for space, weight and durability reasons, it's even better to have two motors in the vehicle, one of them adapted to efficiently torque from zero and one of them adapted for efficient high speed. And so we have what we have.

 

[DanoT]

Can the engineers or smart car guys explain why the auto makers don’t marry a larger electric motor to a drive shaft and transmission to decrease energy consumption like ICEmobiles? Are electric motors just too efficient to see enough energy savings from a geared transmission to be worth the complexity and weight?

The new Toyota Tundra hybrid has an electric motor mounted between V6 twin turbo engine and transmission. I think it adds close to an extra 100ft-lbs of torque vs non hybrid model.

 

[Alexzn]

Well, you go there for the hiking, fjording, etc. The hydro is everywhere you want to be. Pretty sure there’s even glacial melt hydro.
Going to want good rain gear.
View attachment 144004
September. Lots of those Fjords are deep, so ships can go many miles inland.

Ah, Geirangerfjord is beautiful. And has a lot of water around it.

 

[Dakine]

Electric motors have a near flat torque curve from zero RPM to max.
No transmission needed but they do need a speed reducing gearset since they spin too fast at peak efficiency to be direct coupled to a wheel.
Some cars do have electric motors with transmissions but that is a solution looking for a problem.
IC primary hybrids that use electric motors for short term torque boost really kick it out.
Some racing applications are using electrics to spin a supercharger to eliminate lag and increase efficiency.
Formula 1 cars have tried all these tricks with no one solution preferred.

 

[Alexzn]

That's awesome.

Alright...Norway is on the bucket list now.

Norway has the most beautiful scenery in all Europe. it is also the most expensive country to travel in. Still very much worth it.

 

[cantunamunch]

And ... cruise ship tunnel FTW!

 

[raytseng]

Electric motors have a near flat torque curve from zero RPM to max.
No transmission needed but they do need a speed reducing gearset since they spin too fast at peak efficiency to be direct coupled to a wheel.
Some cars do have electric motors with transmissions but that is a solution looking for a problem.
IC primary hybrids that use electric motors for short term torque boost really kick it out.
Some racing applications are using electrics to spin a supercharger to eliminate lag and increase efficiency.
Formula 1 cars have tried all these tricks with no one solution preferred.

mercedes has put these ideas to consumer vehicles now along this concept of as a "light/mild hybrid" (eq power) where they have a relatively small battery and regen system to offload to a 48v electric subsystem only the things electricity is good and superior at; but is not intended to use electicity for bulk energy storage which electricity is bad at.

 

[Jwrags]

Norway has the most beautiful scenery in all Europe. it is also the most expensive country to travel in. Still very much worth it.

Not to mention the most beautiful women. I remember being a young lad of 22 walking the streets of Oslo being afraid of getting whiplash from trying to take in all of the blonde beauties I am much too old and mature to do that now

 

[François Pugh]

Not to mention the most beautiful women. I remember being a young lad of 22 walking the streets of Oslo being afraid of getting whiplash from trying to take in all of the blonde beauties I am much too old and mature to do that now

Stiff kneck won't turn so much now?

 

[Alexzn]

Don’t want this thread to become a lovefest for Norway, but some the infrastructure projects they are re poisoning and building are nothing short of incredible, like floating undersea car tunnels:

 

[James]

So electric motors on cars are all geared down? How can they react so quickly if the motors have to spin up?

 

[djetok]

So electric motors on cars are all geared down? How can they react so quickly if the motors have to spin up?

because they have instant torque.