EV or no EV?

[Tom K.]

So, you're saying there's no fun terrain within 30-35 miles of you you could tow a skier to?

The Nomad is stated as 607 lbs in the Performance model. Ken Block's SkiDoo E-Tec was ~460lbs depending on fuel load.

Sorry, I was unclear. First, the disclaimer that I'm not a sled head, but have a couple friends that are in deep. But not like Ski Talk deep.

That said, for the mountain sledding in powder, off the groomed tracks, they are all about power and weight, so tend to stick with 2T engines, which are typically quite a bit lighter than the 4T engines, let alone battery/e-motor combos.

I drove back to Portland from Jackson Hole

Aside from EV questions, inquiring minds are hoping you hit it good at JH? Big snow year for them.

 

[cantunamunch]

Sorry, I was unclear. First, the disclaimer that I'm not a sled head, but have a couple friends that are in deep. But not like Ski Talk deep.

That said, for the mountain sledding in powder, off the groomed tracks, they are all about power and weight, so tend to stick with 2T engines, which are typically quite a bit lighter than the 4T engines, let alone battery/e-motor combos.

I expect I wasn't clear either - fully aware no one here's a sledhead as such. But could you be if they were quiet?

The power and weight arguments are fine for those for whom powder play is a primary purpose of ownership - but that isn't necessarily a draw for someone just into the sport.

Or could Mrs. K get some towing in herself?

 

[Jwrags]

Sorry, I was unclear. First, the disclaimer that I'm not a sled head, but have a couple friends that are in deep. But not like Ski Talk deep.

That said, for the mountain sledding in powder, off the groomed tracks, they are all about power and weight, so tend to stick with 2T engines, which are typically quite a bit lighter than the 4T engines, let alone battery/e-motor combos.



Aside from EV questions, inquiring minds are hoping you hit it good at JH? Big snow year for them.

Good conditions, overall. Place goes crazy though over a bit of fresh snow. @Prosper was there doing Steep and Deep camp so I imagine he got way more good stuff than us regular people.

 

[Tom K.]

Good conditions, overall. Place goes crazy though over a bit of fresh snow. @Prosper was there doing Steep and Deep camp so I imagine he got way more good stuff than us regular people.

Good to hear. JH was my place forever, from 1980-2020 (before the craziness hit the world).

Driving away, I sadly realized I had aged into a place where I was ready to trade runs like Tower 3 and the Alta Chutes for what I'd call a smaller, quieter experience.

So far, so good, but I do miss the steep, narrow stuff.

OK, back to arguing over EVs.

 

[sparty]

I expect I wasn't clear either - fully aware no one here's a sledhead as such. But could you be if they were quiet?

The power and weight arguments are fine for those for whom powder play is a primary purpose of ownership - but that isn't necessarily a draw for someone just into the sport.

Or could Mrs. K get some towing in herself?

Weight is absolutely an issue for mountain sleds. My take is that the instant torque without being affected by elevation is a big enough plus that, assuming we do see continued advancement in battery tech, will overcome the current weight penalty.

The one review I read of electric "mountain" sleds mentioned that range anxiety was a big issue, particularly from the standpoint of one mistake that gets your sled properly stuck can burn a lot of mechanical energy getting it unstuck (not to mention a lot of human energy), as does powering through particularly deep snow.

 

[dovski]

Sorry late to chime in here as we spent the weekend in a small log cabin next to Stevens Pass ... so was skiing as opposed to posting for a change lol

So long road trips in a Tesla are quite feasible and our experience has been that if you plan a little above and beyond what the built in Nav does for you with the Tesla you can save significant amounts of time, so much so that it really took us the same amount of time to drive from East of Seattle to Whistler and back in our Tesla and our Jeep GC 4xe.

First thing I do is in the Tesla Nav App I pull up all the charging stations on our route. Once you have done this you will see which stations have open chargers, and you can also see which stations are near places you want to stop for a break of any sort. Every time we stop even for a 10 minute pit stop we try to do that at a charger. In other words we do multiple short charging stops of 10-15 minutes when the kids need the potty or my wife wants a coffee .... etc. When stopping for a meal or another purpose ... i.e. we always stop to buy groceries in Squamish and have a bite to eat at a Sushi place we like ... there is a Super charger in that parking lot.

Destination charging is another thing that we leverage a lot as that is always free and essentially allows us to start every day with a full charge.

Now in Winter even the best EV is going to struggle to get you 225 miles of real world range, this is assuming below freezing temperatures and mountain passes. So if you really want to drive longer distances without the need to stop, you should look at a plug in electric hybrid. Our Jeep GC 4XE gets as solid 375-400+ on a full charge plus full tank and easily a solid 360 miles on just gas. We typically just drive in EV mode locally so usually get around 700-800 miles on a single tank, but long haul trips are different. The real game changer with this is the regenerative braking as I can usually drive in EV mode and charge my battery to 10-15% just driving down from the mountain so every time you go downhill you essentially drive gas free and charge to get an addition 5+ miles gas free once you level out. So depending how often you are willing to stop for a quick charge will determine whether or not you go with an EV on PHEV. As an FYI you get the maximum impact from a Tesla Supercharger in the first 10-15 min so unless you are driving a long distance with no charging infra these quick hits go a long long way.

 

[gratedwasabi]

In a non-Tesla Plugshare is the absolute MVP of road trips. As @dovski mentions, the in car nav for every EV I've driven will absolutely take you to the wrong chargers. Plan ahead with Plugshare, get comfortable knowing how much range you get per % and kWh in various conditions, and road trips are no problem.

I do 500+ mile road trips all the time in my i4 and it's no problem.

Destination chargers are great but I'd never anticipate getting on one at a ski resort. Every single time I've gotten to one at a ski resort it's been full of plug in hybrids being greedy to take the free electricity, while EVs nearby wait for them. Fun times. On Friday I got to Whistler before 8am and every charger had a car on it, mostly plug in hybrids. I had to hypermile down to Squamish, but the chargers there were great.

 

[dovski]

In a non-Tesla Plugshare is the absolute MVP of road trips. As @dovski mentions, the in car nav for every EV I've driven will absolutely take you to the wrong chargers. Plan ahead with Plugshare, get comfortable knowing how much range you get per % and kWh in various conditions, and road trips are no problem.

I do 500+ mile road trips all the time in my i4 and it's no problem.

Destination chargers are great but I'd never anticipate getting on one at a ski resort. Every single time I've gotten to one at a ski resort it's been full of plug in hybrids being greedy to take the free electricity, while EVs nearby wait for them. Fun times. On Friday I got to Whistler before 8am and every charger had a car on it, mostly plug in hybrids. I had to hypermile down to Squamish, but the chargers there were great.

Plugshare is good, but to be honest it does not even come close to the Tesla Surpercharging network ... that is the real game changer when it comes to EV travel - fast, consistent, reliable and pretty much everywhere. As for destination charging, ski resorts are tough as they have a handful of free chargers available on a first come first serve basis, but a lot of hotels and restaurants now offer free destination charging and that is a reliable way to look at it. In some cases like at Crystal Mountain you can book a charger in advance, which is what we do.

Also remember EVs are super efficient and will self charge going downhill, so we use a fraction the energy driving from Whistler to Squamish that we do the other way around.

Last but not least, if you are going to be somewhere for an extended period of time and there is a wall socket available you can plug into that. While it may only add 2-3 miles per hour, it prevents you from losing charge while you are parked there. Remember in cold climates you actually plug in your ICE vehicles overnight .... do the same with your EV!

 

[dovski]

It is official, Toyota is now 100% committed to EVs according to their new CEO

MSN

This is a 180 degree change in direction and strategy for Toyota ... though according to them this was always the case but Toyota has had a "communication problem" about its EV strategy so far, something he wants to correct and change.

Interesting read, but pretty clear that with Toyota's shift in strategy pretty much every major auto manufacturer is betting their future on EVs.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Has anybody read this from todays WSJ? I think this link is unpaywalled.

Opinion | The Climate Crusaders Are Coming for Electric Cars Too

A new report makes clear the ultimate goal: tiny, uncomfortable apartments and bicycles for all.

www.wsj.com

 

[Seldomski]

Has anybody read this from todays WSJ? I think this link is unpaywalled.

Opinion | The Climate Crusaders Are Coming for Electric Cars Too

A new report makes clear the ultimate goal: tiny, uncomfortable apartments and bicycles for all.

www.wsj.com

Paywalled. Climate crusaders, LOL. Second line of title:

A new report makes clear the ultimate goal: tiny, uncomfortable apartments and bicycles for all.​

Statement isn't wrong... best bet is to get rid of all the humans and the earth will be better off. Should be some middle ground somewhere though (ie between where we are now and the extinction of the human race).

 

[cantunamunch]

Fewer kids?

Should be some middle ground somewhere though (ie between where we are now and the extinction of the human race).

Nah. No original sin belief system has a middle ground.

 

[geepers]

Has anybody read this from todays WSJ? I think this link is unpaywalled.

Opinion | The Climate Crusaders Are Coming for Electric Cars Too

A new report makes clear the ultimate goal: tiny, uncomfortable apartments and bicycles for all.

www.wsj.com

Statement isn't wrong... best bet is to get rid of all the humans and the earth will be better off. Should be some middle ground somewhere though (ie between where we are now and the extinction of the human race).

And the outlet publishing that article is.....? And it's owned by who...? Well, what a surprise.

 

[Bill Miles]

Paywalled. Climate crusaders, LOL. Second line of title:

A new report makes clear the ultimate goal: tiny, uncomfortable apartments and bicycles for all.​

Statement isn't wrong... best bet is to get rid of all the humans and the earth will be better off. Should be some middle ground somewhere though (ie between where we are now and the extinction of the human race).

Didn't Tom Clancy write a book about that? Except it wasn't the whole human race, just 99.9% of it.

 

[dovski]

And the outlet publishing that article is.....? And it's owned by who...? Well, what a surprise.

Pretty clear when you read the first sentence of the second paragraph "The report offers an honest look at the vast personal, environmental and economic needed to meet the left's net-zero climate goals. So basically you have a conservative leaning publication writing and article about a left wing leaning report. This is what I call a double bias lol
To be clear the report was targeted and one group, the article on the report was targeted at the opposite group and the folks in the middle get whiplash trying to parse together two opposing viewpoints lol.

 

[cantunamunch]

Didn't Tom Clancy write a book about that? Except it wasn't the whole human race, just 99.9% of it.

Eh, so did Douglas Adams ...and Phyllis White...and...

and the folks in the middle get whiplash trying to parse together two opposing viewpoints lol.

You spelled "third degree burns from all the giant straw men being set on fire...and generating CO2" wrong

 

[Tom K.]

BMW/Toyota still hedging their bets a bit. Some very interesting points here:

2023 BMW iX5 Prototype First Drive Review: The future isn’t (battery) electric - Autoblog

We drive BMW's iX5 prototype, powered by electricity generated onboard by a hydrogen fuel cell system. Can this propulsion tech live alongside battery EVs?

www.autoblog.com

 

[dovski]

BMW/Toyota still hedging their bets a bit. Some very interesting points here:

2023 BMW iX5 Prototype First Drive Review: The future isn’t (battery) electric - Autoblog

We drive BMW's iX5 prototype, powered by electricity generated onboard by a hydrogen fuel cell system. Can this propulsion tech live alongside battery EVs?

www.autoblog.com

So if you read closely you will see a big difference between what BMW and Toyota are doing. Toyota has an ICE engine powered by hydrogen and BMW has an electric engine powered by hydrogen plus a battery to store the energy needed to power the engine. Interesting approach for large vehicles that need to travel long distances per the article. This is very different from Toyota’s approach and could be quite interesting. Sounds like a Hydrogen PHEV, would love to find out more about this technology as it develops

 

[tball]

The New Prius Prime Proves That the Best EV Might Not Be an EV

Toyota’s steadfastness and deliberate changes have made the new Prius, especially the Prius Prime, the right answer for a lot of people looking at buying a new all-electric car.

www.roadandtrack.com

Makes sense to me, except if I had a long commute, I'd probably get a Model 3 because it's fun to drive.

Hopefully, Toyota will start making fun-to-drive hybrids with their renewed focus on not being boring and the GR brand. From the article:

"It’s possible that we’re only an algorithm change away from a 300-odd horsepower Prius with a GR performance badge on the back. Wouldn’t that be great for elevating the brand?"

 

[cantunamunch]

^ That's all good and well thought out and I support easing transition while lithium supply, catalyst supply, battery supply and recycling are all so hugely bottlenecked.


BUT hybrids come with not insignificant engineering and cost tradeoffs - and we should keep those in mind as having been made.