One thing none have mentioned is the de-ice products used on roads and the long term impact where they are used, I don't think we've started to see the issues yet, its hard enough on non-electric, but get to electric the funny will begin.
-
For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.
EV or no EV?
- Thread starter Dakine
- Start date
- Status
Why would the de-icing products be any worse on electric cars? I don't drive one, but the electric-specific components seem like they should be isolated from environmental agents well enough to minimize any impact, right?
Not that I disagree about de-icing products in general. They're a necessary evil in some climates, but man do they do a number on the vehicle.
I think he's referring to the fact that the skateboard is the heaviest part of the vehicle - and sits pretty low in the chassis - and has to be protected from side impact.
On ICE vehicles, most of what you're rotting out is floorpan sheetmetal, nowhere nearly as mission critical or as pricey to replace. If the battery support tray rots out, or the battery side impact structure rots out, you're magnifying the consequences by a large factor.
Plus the haze of spray from roadways finds it's way into things. Are the components and connectors sufficiently sealed? I think they've been around long enough to know, I just don't personally know..
IME, this is just as much an issue with ICE vehicles as it could be with electric (i.e. I've had to replace connectors in ICE vehicles to keep them operational and actually gave up on one after breaking the positive post off the starter). Newer vehicles in general seem to be better in this regard than what I remember dealing with in 90s VWs (in particular), so I'd expect the same to be true of electric vehicles. It's also not like a modern ICE vehicle is lacking in connectors that, if corroded significantly, can render the vehicle undriveable.
Re: the potential for stuff to rust out—sounds like a good application for non-ferrous materials. I'm really, really happy with the benefits of the aluminum body on my F-150, not the least because I don't have to worry about a small scratch or paint chip turning into cancerous rust on the body. The frame is still steel, but hopefully it's more resilient than Tacoma frames
Shouldn’t de-ICE products hasten the demise of ICE vehicles
^Beware Internet drolls!
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2015
- Posts
- 24,967
Paywall.there was note prior on why EVs are good and comment on Toyota being behind the curve but there does seem to be justifications on benefit of Hybrids over full EVs.
Materials, charging infrastructure, and then benefit of impact having up to 37x near term impact on emissions:
or
Opinion | Targeting Toyota for Its Electric-Vehicle Heresy
Public pensions and proxy advisers try to punish the company using corporate governance as a pretext.www.wsj.com
some of course is positioning by Toyota but still valid considerations.
Toyota has been openly spewing misinformation for years because of their hydrogen obsession. Of course you want to build hybrids with small batteries if you’ve got no battery infrastructure and no platform to put them in otherwise.
There is a good point in there though, and the enormous battery size people think they want isn’t a great idea. The Hummer ev with a 200kw battery is pretty ridiculous. The vehicle weighs 9,500 lbs, 4318kgs. If it’s vehicle to home or grid capable, it would be a good backup power source on wheels.
Ceo Akido Toyoda stepped down in January.
Toyota announced they’ll be out with 10ev’s by 2026 with a 1.5million car “base volume” then. 1.5/9.5million is 16%. And I think that 9.5 million includes mini vehicles used in Asia. This would indeed be a huge U turn from their 2021 announcement that 85% of their vehicles would still be ice in 2030.
Toyota does have unresolved risks for any full EV product, but being in midwest with limited charging locations, appreciate not having to worry about charge run out.
Battery technologies are ramping up, both Solid and Silicon anode (and others) appear promising if scalable with higher energy densities, lower fire risk (though I don't see this as significant short of cheap products with cheap cells), and significant for many, much faster recharge times. If some of the higher density cells benefit with a fast recharge, then when compounded the weight and total materials can drop significantly.
I'm not sure that's entirely corporate. In other words, their government may have had some notions on the matter.
I have no doubt Toyota will do well in the long run by offering a mix of technologies. On the EV side, I hope they take the opportunity to differentiate on their trademark QDR (quality, durability, reliability) and make EVs that will be around and sought after for decades, as they have with conventional vehicles for so long. Seems like a large wide-open market others are not touching.
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2015
- Posts
- 24,967
EPA to adjust plug in hybrid ratings.
theicct.org
“It is clear in the real-world data that many PHEV drivers simply never plug in at all.”
Don’t plug in your plug-in hybrid? EPA will now hold automakers responsible. - International Council on Clean Transportation
Accounting for the real-world use of PHEV’s would prevent over-crediting of GHG emission savings
theicct.org
“It is clear in the real-world data that many PHEV drivers simply never plug in at all.”
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2015
- Posts
- 24,967
Vietnamese ev, Vinfast 8, on sale in CA gets incredibly bad review. So bad, it’s worth reading.
———————
The crap suspension damping and motion sickness–inducing body movements aren’t even the biggest issues. The steering response is nonlinear and inconsistent, and there is absolutely no feedback delivered through the wheel. It’s terrible, especially when you put the VF8 in Sport mode and the steering becomes so overboosted that it’s borderline uncontrollable. My car also pulled to the right on flat surfaces, so that’s fun.
If you described a car to ChatGPT and had it build something without any background knowledge or contextual awareness, the VF8 is what I imagine you’d get…
The VF8 feels and drives like a prototype vehicle that’s a year away from launch. It needs work. A lot of work. I cannot believe this is a vehicle you can go out and buy right now.
—————-
insideevs.com
Amazingly, that thing he was testing is like $52k. But a 10year/125k warranty!
Sad. They either had no consultants here or didn’t listen to them before putting it on sale.
———————
The crap suspension damping and motion sickness–inducing body movements aren’t even the biggest issues. The steering response is nonlinear and inconsistent, and there is absolutely no feedback delivered through the wheel. It’s terrible, especially when you put the VF8 in Sport mode and the steering becomes so overboosted that it’s borderline uncontrollable. My car also pulled to the right on flat surfaces, so that’s fun.
If you described a car to ChatGPT and had it build something without any background knowledge or contextual awareness, the VF8 is what I imagine you’d get…
The VF8 feels and drives like a prototype vehicle that’s a year away from launch. It needs work. A lot of work. I cannot believe this is a vehicle you can go out and buy right now.
—————-
2023 VinFast VF8 City Edition First Drive Review: Yikes
Vietnam's VinFast has big plans to break into the US market with a range of electric crossovers. After driving the VF8, though, that might not be the best idea.
insideevs.com
Amazingly, that thing he was testing is like $52k. But a 10year/125k warranty!
Sad. They either had no consultants here or didn’t listen to them before putting it on sale.
This is probably why they just, quite unexpectedly, delayed building the huge plant to produce them here.(or was it the batteries maybe both?)Vietnamese ev, Vinfast 8, on sale in CA gets incredibly bad review. So bad, it’s worth reading.
———————
The crap suspension damping and motion sickness–inducing body movements aren’t even the biggest issues. The steering response is nonlinear and inconsistent, and there is absolutely no feedback delivered through the wheel. It’s terrible, especially when you put the VF8 in Sport mode and the steering becomes so overboosted that it’s borderline uncontrollable. My car also pulled to the right on flat surfaces, so that’s fun.
If you described a car to ChatGPT and had it build something without any background knowledge or contextual awareness, the VF8 is what I imagine you’d get…
The VF8 feels and drives like a prototype vehicle that’s a year away from launch. It needs work. A lot of work. I cannot believe this is a vehicle you can go out and buy right now.
—————-
2023 VinFast VF8 City Edition First Drive Review: Yikes
Vietnam's VinFast has big plans to break into the US market with a range of electric crossovers. After driving the VF8, though, that might not be the best idea.
Amazingly, that thing he was testing is like $52k. But a 10year/125k warranty!
Sad. They either had no consultants here or didn’t listen to them before putting it on sale.
Wait, Pininfarina actually put their name on this thing?
It wasn't, like, something a person over at Mahindra scribbled on the back of a napkin?
It wasn't, like, something a person over at Mahindra scribbled on the back of a napkin?
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2015
- Posts
- 24,967
Pinninfarina has had some pretty questionable output at times. Including the buckles on Lange boots some years ago. ( More in the whats the point? category)Wait, Pininfarina actually put their name on this thing?
It wasn't, like, something a person over at Mahindra scribbled on the back of a napkin?
Rolls Royce Camargue
Sure...but even if I hated it, it was gloriously ugly. Like those blingy buckled Lange boots had eye-watering shimmer if the CO sun hit them right.
This thing... is barely even a meh student exercise.
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2015
- Posts
- 24,967
Leaving the Hyundai aside for the moment, have a look at the Vinfasts from 4-5 years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VinFast_LUX_A2.0
THIS was designed.
I submit that what they've given us upstairs is... digested from the gas powered original.
Digested by whatever local jungle spiders they're training to be corporate staff and *not* by Pininfarina.
- Status