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EV Vehicle Only Thread

slemmo

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US 240 is quite different from our 230 and "3 phase" IT

Im chargeing at 1 phase 230 6A recently, due to peak tarrifs here, trying to stay below 10KW average through the day , my peak today has been as high as 13KW, my daily avg is just below :| winter is coming, and thats just 1 of the meters for the house

Actually looks like Teslas delivered in the US dont support 3 phase home charging at all, because of the NACS plug and limitations in the electrical grid for consumer users: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/charging-with-220v-3-phases-in-usa-model-y-2023.307683/
 

socalgal

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It does. You’d never confuse the two in real life, or think the Rivian is a lifted Flex. Not sure exactly why. I always thought the awd Flex would make a great traveling or ski car. They can be long and would be good to sleep in. It’s a little surprising they never did
When we were were shopping for a new car, back in 2010/11, we were interested in the flex. Unfortunately when we went to the Ford dealer, we were ignored for quite a while.... so we left and never went back.
 

Paul Lutes

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When we were were shopping for a new car, back in 2010/11, we were interested in the flex. Unfortunately when we went to the Ford dealer, we were ignored for quite a while.... so we left and never went back.
<<thread drift>>>
This phenomenon boggles my mind - If you just want to look around, they're all over you. If you know exactly what you want to see/test, ...... not so much.
 

Seldomski

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For wireless charging the car... could you park next to a car charging and put a mat with an inductive loop in it over the charging pad and steal the power to charge your own car?
 

James

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For wireless charging the car... could you park next to a car charging and put a mat with an inductive loop in it over the charging pad and steal the power to charge your own car?
If you threw a mat on it, it would turn off. If you made something where there’s still an air gap, perhaps, but it would be difficult. You can’t just plug it into your car, the car needs digital handshakes.
If you have the same setup? Maybe, don’t know if there’s communication back from the car to the charger via wifi. There must be or how would they charge you?
 

Seldomski

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So pranksters running around putting aluminum foil between the car and the pad.

I dont know how much handshaking happens with these things. I can wirelessly charge my phone and the device doing it somehow figures it out without talking to the phone. Maybe the charger can sense the load on it and there's just an initial handshake to turn the thing on.
 

James

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Maybe the charger can sense the load on it and there's just an initial handshake to turn the thing on.
It turns off if something goes on it as a safety. So say squirrels or cats or small dogs don’t get a dose of electromagnetic radiation.
So pranksters could throw almost anything on it to stop it.

Handshaking I was talking about the plug in charger. It’s not like a phone plug in where it’s just supplying the power basically. There’s communication between the vehicle and charger. Charger needs to know what car it is, what battery, to start, plus charging your account if it’s not pay at pump. Like Tesla. After starting the charge, the battery management system in the car will control how much power is drawn based on all sorts of things like batt temp, and state of charge. The car will often heat or cool the battery before or during.

This type of thing must be done via wifi or bluetooth on these wireless chargers I would think.

(What’s to prevent pranksters from shoving something in the fuel filler of an ice car, assuming there's no lock?)

It’s pretty involved, and the reason making standards for charging, like the NACS plug, aka Tesla plug, is way more than just defining the plug’s shape. You have to establish standard communication protocols everyone can implement.
 

pete

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When we were were shopping for a new car, back in 2010/11, we were interested in the flex. Unfortunately when we went to the Ford dealer, we were ignored for quite a while.... so we left and never went back.
worked with an older guy (Tom) who also worked at a machine fab plant. He was often dirty and in blue/gray standard work scrubs but he made good money.

Told me when he visited a dealership knowing exactly what he wanted. this 5 yrs or more prior, I think a Monte Carlo, t-top,, leather, works. yup .. ignored him though he knew exactly the model wanted and had cash.

He was really miffed, went to the dealer on other side of town, bought one off the lot. Returned 3 days later to the original dealership and asked for the sales manager saying he had a complaint. Told the manager he wanted to buy it there, but was ignored.

Manager was cool offering some free car washes. Tom told me the story as I was looking for used and suggested skipping them if they don't treat one well right of the bat.
 
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Tom K.

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Autoblog likes the new Volvo mini-CUV:


Seems to be priced a bit aspriationally to me, but doesn't everything these days?
 

pete

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Autoblog likes the new Volvo mini-CUV:


Seems to be priced a bit aspriationally to me, but doesn't everything these days?
The story following the Volvo review is interesting:

 

James

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The story following the Volvo review is interesting:

It’s pretty stupid. The press on it is even worse. Byd is now building a plant in Europe. Tesla is planing to build a €25k car in Berlin.
The US Oem’s better get straightened out quickly.

This guy runs Sino Auto Insights, mostly tracking China’s auto industry, but he’s based in Detroit.

——————-
Some blockbuster news this week but before I get to it all I am going to jump on my soapbox for a minute. Recently, there have been a number of articles with some pretty damning headlines about EVs ‘not working’ and US automakers pulling back blah blah blah.

Let me start by asking, who is going to buy a 9K lb. Hummer for $120K? Also, handbuliding battery cells, modules and packs doesn’t make for an efficient manufacturing process. Next, EVs seem to be working just fine in China, so much so that two of the largest European automakers bought stakes in two Chinese EV companies so what are they doing right or maybe the question needs to be, what are WE doing wrong?

If you talk to the people who actually follow the sector closely, you’ll know that most of the legacies, save Toyota and even Tesla had bigger eyes than their stomachs could bear. Forecasts about transitioning tomorrow, building XXX many EVs were never right or accurate, but folks ate that shit up.

Will there be rough patches, of course there will be - Mary Barra said as much this week - "As we get further into the transformation to EV, it's a bit bumpy," We still don’t have enough charging infrastructure and the ones that are in the wild don’t work half the time. Further, no legacy automaker learned anything from Tesla when Elon said they went through ‘manufacturing hell’ and dove right in thinking, ‘How hard can this be?’

But it’s the automotive execs that created this unrealistic expectation to begin with. The F-150 Lightning was supposed to launch at $40K, it now has a $50K starting price, a 25% lift. How many EVs are actually affordable enough for ‘normal’ hardworking American, I can think of the Chevy Bolt off the top of my head and a few Tesla’s, that’s it.
————————
 
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Tom K.

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It’s pretty stupid.

Gotta respectfully disagree (even though this is supposed to be an EV Only thread).

Autoblog is a huge thumper of the EV and hybrid drum. If they publish an article like this, there is something there.

But, since this is my thread, let's keep it to discussion of the actual vehicles, please. ;)
 
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Tom K.

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C&D also fans of the new "baby" Volvo CUV EV, but lordy, near 50k for the top level AWD version for something this small seems a stretch, to me.

 

pete

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EV battery pricing continues it's downward trend ... $99/kwh in 2025:

Battery price trends.png


 

Rod9301

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Rivian is losing 5 billion a year.

You have to be pretty courageous to buy a truck from them, as they may not be around.
 

James

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Tesla lost billions per year till 2021. Now they have the most profit/car and made $2billion last year in fines/credits on other oems.

GM has said they’ll be at $87 per kwh by 2025. We’ll see. Costs have dropped enormously in the last ten years. The next 5 will outpace that, and there are multiple chemistries coming along. It’s very likely you will see large scale, high output/input batteries of 500w/kg. That will change aviation.

2024 Citroen ec3, €23,000 next spring/summer in Europe. 44kwh, 200miles.

 

locknload

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There is no doubt that the cost has to come down some. I can't be all that all EVs are luxury OR priced luxury for a mid-level car. Dropping battery costs and increasing efficiency in the production process hopefully will help. I paid under 40K for a lightly used 2021 Mustang Mach E....I'm very comfortable with that pricing but it's close to 60K for the same trim if it's brand new. While I like the Rivian...I'm stunned so many people will pay 100K for it...that is a ton of cash for a vehicle.
 

James

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The cost difference is what’s keeping ice vehicles with little to no advantages alive.
That will not be true in 5 years, esp as charging will be greatly improved.

Worlds largest oil refiner Sinopec, recently said China’s gasoline demand will peak this year, two years earlier than thought.

——————
China has been the largest driver of global growth for refined oil products like gasoline and diesel over the last two decades. But EV adoption rates in China are now soaring, with August figures likely to show plug-in vehicles hitting 38% of new passenger-vehicle sales. That’s up from just 6% in 2020 and is starting to materially dent fuel demand.
———————
 

pete

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Tesla lost billions per year till 2021. Now they have the most profit/car and made $2billion last year in fines/credits on other oems.

GM has said they’ll be at $87 per kwh by 2025. We’ll see. Costs have dropped enormously in the last ten years. The next 5 will outpace that, and there are multiple chemistries coming along. It’s very likely you will see large scale, high output/input batteries of 500w/kg. That will change aviation.

2024 Citroen ec3, €23,000 next spring/summer in Europe. 44kwh, 200miles.

I trust the price trend given by an industry research group over GM. But overall the point is the trend lines provided materials one segment isn't restrained.

At a high simplistic level I see the EV market technologically more like LED bulbs. I disliked gov't intervention to push people into buying an item that on it's own, would win out based on merits. Yeah, I get the idea of stoking the fire for stuff, but today most EV's (US wise) an premium product. Low cost is still a ways out and not all folks can buy off on the longer term returns on an EV. Of course, I'll moan about the ICE truck I like being $80K .. ;)
 

pete

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and there are multiple chemistries coming along. It’s very likely you will see large scale, high output/input batteries of 500w/kg. That will change aviation.
Aviation at least large aircraft unfortunately won't be seeing true fully electric nor regionals either soon as I understand. Fossil Fuel density is still nearly 2 orders of magnitude that of the .5kw/kg of batteries and with the weight burned off, a bit more advantageous.

787 today generates 1.2MW and the A350 are in the 1/2MW for power generation running electrified systems. I believe the current goals are best aimed at the hybrid turboprop aircraft where one offsets some fuel needs with batteries.
 

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