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EV Vehicle Only Thread

Bill Talbot

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Looks like they are finally on track to extend the very limited range of the EVs. Now maybe some can get up to the mountain AND get back home...

Tesla-generator.jpg
 

Seldomski

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Aviation at least large aircraft unfortunately won't be seeing true fully electric nor regionals either soon as I understand. Fossil Fuel density is still nearly 2 orders of magnitude that of the .5kw/kg of batteries and with the weight burned off, a bit more advantageous.

787 today generates 1.2MW and the A350 are in the 1/2MW for power generation running electrified systems. I believe the current goals are best aimed at the hybrid turboprop aircraft where one offsets some fuel needs with batteries.
I don't think electrification of jets is coming any time soon. Prop based planes with short ranges, maybe. Some sort of bio fuel for jets seems a more workable solution.

This is another reason to electrify cars and anything else where a battery can work. Aerospace really needs the power density of fuel to work. Cars can take the performance hit of a heavy battery and still function. Fuel needs to be saved for things only it can enable.
 

James

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Aviation at least large aircraft unfortunately won't be seeing true fully electric nor regionals either soon as I understand. Fossil Fuel density is still nearly 2 orders of magnitude that of the .5kw/kg of batteries and with the weight burned off, a bit more advantageous.

787 today generates 1.2MW and the A350 are in the 1/2MW for power generation running electrified systems. I believe the current goals are best aimed at the hybrid turboprop aircraft where one offsets some fuel needs with batteries.
No, not for quite some time. But people always focus on the huge aircraft. This is a mistake to see what’s going on. It’s just the beginning of what some call the third age of aviation. Things are moving very fast.

Turboprops now I guess have a ceiling of about 30k ft, and above that you need a jet. So long flights, high up for low drag and low turbulence = jet. There are experimental electric plasma jet engines but they’re small lab things now. So long distance, and or large planes is likely jet fuel jets for some time. Trying to make sustainable aviation fuel at reasonable cost is likely a better way to go.


Electric will initially be displacing helicopters and very small aircraft for flights under like 50-60 miles. This will fairly quickly go to 100 miles, then 200 miles.

This isn’t pie in the sky someday stuff. There’s no maybe. Lots of companies are getting involved. The Paris Olympics next year will have electric evtol shuttles for 4 people.
United Airlines has commited to purchase $1billion, 100 of Archer’s 4 person + pilot electric aircraft. In 2025 they’ll run shuttles downtown Chicago to ORD. 10 min flight That’s less than 2 years away.

Delta has partnered with Joby.


Already there’s very small 2person fixed wing electric used by a Swedish flying school. Total time flying about 50-55min, max load about 380lbs. So it’s only used in the vicinity of the airport and both occupants can’t be heavy.

Rolls Royce has a generator for a hybrid flight system. 500Mw to 1.2Gw. Rolls Royce also set the record for speed of an electric aircraft in their single engine Spirit of Innovation. 387mph max speed, 345mph over 3km, 330mph over 15km.


 

pete

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No, not for quite some time. But people always focus on the huge aircraft. This is a mistake to see what’s going on. It’s just the beginning of what some call the third age of aviation. Things are moving very fast.

Turboprops now I guess have a ceiling of about 30k ft, and above that you need a jet. So long flights, high up for low drag and low turbulence = jet. There are experimental electric plasma jet engines but they’re small lab things now. So long distance, and or large planes is likely jet fuel jets for some time. Trying to make sustainable aviation fuel at reasonable cost is likely a better way to go.


Electric will initially be displacing helicopters and very small aircraft for flights under like 50-60 miles. This will fairly quickly go to 100 miles, then 200 miles.

This isn’t pie in the sky someday stuff. There’s no maybe. Lots of companies are getting involved. The Paris Olympics next year will have electric evtol shuttles for 4 people.
United Airlines has commited to purchase $1billion, 100 of Archer’s 4 person + pilot electric aircraft. In 2025 they’ll run shuttles downtown Chicago to ORD. 10 min flight That’s less than 2 years away.

Delta has partnered with Joby.


Already there’s very small 2person fixed wing electric used by a Swedish flying school. Total time flying about 50-55min, max load about 380lbs. So it’s only used in the vicinity of the airport and both occupants can’t be heavy.

Rolls Royce has a generator for a hybrid flight system. 500Mw to 1.2Gw. Rolls Royce also set the record for speed of an electric aircraft in their single engine Spirit of Innovation. 387mph max speed, 345mph over 3km, 330mph over 15km.


much or more of the near electric avi stuff is new/growth market and less so offset to current market. All good as it can offset other forms of fuel use.

I see added reliability in products too that nix more complex mechanical assemblies whether combustion, hydraulic, or even cables. However I'll say I prefer non drive by wire for steering even if electric is more reliable. : )
 

pete

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interesting read. I can see where it seems to be easier to pay the piper later:

 

James

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All depends on how you look at it.
In the US ev’s are going to be 9-10% of sales by the end of the year. That’s way beyond projections from 5 years ago. So in that, it’s a success.

If not for the incompetence of Volkswagen, available charging would not be that unreliable. Tesla has nearly no complaints of their network. It’s not magic. Not only did VW fail, they gave up making money on their investment. Can’t fix stupid.

Look at GM. They come out with the Hummer, which has a 246kwh battery. You could almost build 4 Bolt batteries, 65kwh with one Hummer. Then GM decides to cancel the Bolt, their only successful ev. Plus people like it. They eventually reverse course. The Hummer is a vanity project to appeal to people who aren’t going to buy an ev for 5 years anyway. If that. They haven’t even sold 1,000, and last year they sold 854.

All oems have lost their cash cow, China, after decades in billions of profit per year. Despite warnings that emissions standards would change, they did little. No one wants their cars now, and it’ll get worse next year. Toyota might be able to turn that around in 3 years.

The charging thing will eventually work out. It’s going to be significantly wireless too. There’s no way to say go to 50% ev sales now. Though if prices were better, they would be more like 20% than 10.
 
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Tom K.

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Rivian is losing 5 billion a year.

You have to be pretty courageous to buy a truck from them, as they may not be around.

Agreed, which provides a great segue back to actual electric vehicle discussion:

Rivian is offering their electric van with truly horrendous range at what I feel is the ridiculous price of ~80,000, but showcasing some interesting EV tech:


Killers for me is that it is FWD and costs $30,000 more than our recently-purchased full-sized AWD Transit Crew Van.

While VW, swimming against the "all SUV all the time" tide is bringing a large hatchback (my favorite style of car for active lifestyle folk) over here soon, with pretty darn good range, but still estimated at $50,000:

 

James

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Rivian is offering their electric van with truly horrendous range at what I feel is the ridiculous price of ~80,000,
The range is just fine for what it’s used for. Amazon thinks so. It’s not a highway traveller and it’s not for the public. You could do what gm did in the Hummer and triple the size of the battery to get range. But that’s just useless weight and huge cost. These vans don’t go 400 miles in a day.

Rivian is one of the very few other than Tesla that made software fundamental from the get go. VW group has had a horrendous time. It’s a mess within a mess and they keep attempting to right the ship and it sinks. They put Peter Bosch as head of the software division. He was head of vehicle manufacturing at Bentley. Even GM had the sense to hire an exec with… a software background, Apple, to head software. But it could work out.
 

pete

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how about the EV camper market. Not that I'd buy one just because it's electric but I get a kick out of the technology ecosystem use.

Just having a camper/trailer, position itself onto your hitch is pretty entertaining. Tech now allows car to do this but it's still a good use of using the tech to do extra things we don't normally think about.

https://pebblelife.com/

others out there, Airstream, Lightship, etc.
 
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Tom K.

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C&D is pretty high on the Rivian:


Great driving, etc.

Gripes being unimpressive, but not horrible, range, price (95k yikes!), and weight at 7,000 pounds.

At that weight, I'd personally want a bit more box size.
 

locknload

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C&D is pretty high on the Rivian:


Great driving, etc.

Gripes being unimpressive, but not horrible, range, price (95k yikes!), and weight at 7,000 pounds.

At that weight, I'd personally want a bit more box size.
Nice vehicle..is it 100K nice? I'm not sure.
 
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Tom K.

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Nice vehicle..is it 100K nice? I'm not sure.

Agree on both counts. For me, it's maybe 60,000 nice, which I know puts me out of touch with the realities of the current market, but that's just me.
 

locknload

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Agree on both counts. For me, it's maybe 60,000 nice, which I know puts me out of touch with the realities of the current market, but that's just me.
I think next year there will be some other competing options that should be in that 60 to 70K range. I remember when only really rich Dbags drove 100k cars. :roflmao:
 

CO Freeskier

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Tom K.

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This looks quite interesting…the Lucid Gravity coming out next year.

I read that Lucid article, and it appears to be as close to a minivan as it can be, without being in danger of actually being called that.

From a skier and mtb rider's perspective, minivan FTW!

The Lucid also appears to have very good range and charging speed (at the ones that are working), but the usual EV high price.

 

dovski

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Lucid is losing money like crazy
Yeah most EV companies are losing money, just like most major auto manufacturers are losing money on EVs. Tesla was losing billions for years until they hit scale and now they are one of the most profitable automotive companies, so I think companies like Lucid and Rivian whith a great product will probably get a lot of leeway from investors as everyone is betting on them to repeat Tesla's success. So while for a normal company this would be the kiss of death for these EV startups it is par for the course.
 

pete

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I read that Lucid article, and it appears to be as close to a minivan as it can be, without being in danger of actually being called that.

From a skier and mtb rider's perspective, minivan FTW!

The Lucid also appears to have very good range and charging speed (at the ones that are working), but the usual EV high price.

The article in the WSJ is:

Sounds perhaps one reason the OEMs are jumping onto the Tesla chargers. Too, time tends to standardize and commoditize products into being more reliable, so cross the fingers.

It'd be interesting to know the payback period on a charger.
 

dovski

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The article in the WSJ is:

Sounds perhaps one reason the OEMs are jumping onto the Tesla chargers. Too, time tends to standardize and commoditize products into being more reliable, so cross the fingers.

It'd be interesting to know the payback period on a charger.
Yes the Tesla Supercharging network is a game changer when it comes to driving an EV. Easy access to super fast charging and more importantly full integration of the charging network into your cars OS and navigation system make for a pretty seamless experience. We have done numerous road trips in our Tesla and their charging network makes all the difference. Now that they charge for it, this is also a nice revenue source for Tesla so, these deals with other manufacturers make a lot of sense for them and will also allow them to continue to invest in it and a faster pace than pretty much all other fast charging networks combined.
 

locknload

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This looks quite interesting…the Lucid Gravity coming out next year. Been reading about the Lucid Air and it seems as though they are carrying through a lot of that design/tech to an SUV. I’ve been inside their sedan, the Air, and it just oozes luxury and quality unlike the Tesla’s I’ve been in.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a45861120/2025-lucid-gravity-revealed/

View attachment 215815
revealed/
The style is growing on me. Its way sleeker than a mini-van and I watched a review video yesterday and think its has some nice features, luxurious aesthetics and is powerful (800 HP) AND has a big range. I'm not sure I'd buy it....but I'm not gonna dismiss it either. Its shape makes it more aerodynamic and helps push up the range.
 

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