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Expert ski pair / Groomers & Versatile

ski otter 2

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Consumer race or near race boots are good to try, if all or almost all on groomers especially.
For the carving skis you've mentioned, 120 or 130.
The brand options you will have depend on your foot. Lange RS 120 or 130 or the Rossi equivalent might work since you have Rossi now.
(Rossi and Lange race are the same boot, both owned by Rossi.)
 

anders_nor

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a lot of the 120 stuff is kinda meh.

I never got the love for soft boots, except for when you après, downsized raceboots doesn't shine for that, especially without soles.
 
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Balsh

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Consumer race or near race boots are good to try, if all or almost all on groomers especially.
For the carving skis you've mentioned, 120 or 130.
The brand options you will have depend on your foot. Lange RS 120 or 130 or the Rossi equivalent might work since you have Rossi now.
(Rossi and Lange race are the same boot, both owned by Rossi.)
Major difference to expect if skiing day to day with 130 flex while coming from 90? No experience with anything about 90.

Difficult to say if I am trully made for Rossi as never tried anything else since 10 years. Skiing with a 28.5 boots today while I am 26.5/27 mondopoint for 104mm wide approx in reality, with very skinny calves. Can guess why I am so comfortable with them and feel lack of grip ...
 

anders_nor

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flex doesn't matter much at all, FIT does!!!

trouble with proper fitting boots is there is no way back

I heard in a box store here when we asked where their selection of 130flex stuff was "nobody skies a 130, thats for racing" then some chitchat and "you cant ski for an entire day in 130 flex boots" " you can only have them on for an hour at a time" dude spewed out so much BS in a short while it was amazing.

(disclaimer, we only visited there because they had a 60% storewide discount) I got enforcers for $100! new!
 

anders_nor

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my take is, higher end race shops has so much better bootfiiters, you cannot really compare them, so you end up with higher flex boot fitting better, also the higher end higher flex boots often has plastics easier to work with
I use atomic downsized punched 130 CS as a daily, GF rocks STI 130 as daily (and race) and its the best boots we ever had. my knees and body in general gives out long before feet/boots now.

Better fitting boots, less jacking the buckles to much
 

Tony Storaro

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Major difference to expect if skiing day to day with 130 flex while coming from 90? No experience with anything about 90.

Difficult to say if I am trully made for Rossi as never tried anything else since 10 years. Skiing with a 28.5 boots today while I am 26.5/27 mondopoint for 104mm wide approx in reality, with very skinny calves. Can guess why I am so comfortable with them and feel lack of grip ...

Why? I mean why do you even do it? Skiing 104 last boots 2 sizes bigger-that makes no sense.
 

MountainMonster

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Balsh

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Why? I mean why do you even do it? Skiing 104 last boots 2 sizes bigger-that makes no sense.
I was comfy and I assume less good skier in the past, now living close by the mountains I spend much more time on the pistes and my level and dedication importantly increased in less than two years. So this became a priority as this is pure non sense indeed.

Comfort wise it is great, not a strong NOGO performance wise neither, but when going high speed and putting some pressure down there it started to be an issue - So first step improvement starting there.

my take is, higher end race shops has so much better bootfiiters, you cannot really compare them, so you end up with higher flex boot fitting better, also the higher end higher flex boots often has plastics easier to work with
I use atomic downsized punched 130 CS as a daily, GF rocks STI 130 as daily (and race) and its the best boots we ever had. my knees and body in general gives out long before feet/boots now.

Better fitting boots, less jacking the buckles to much
Make sense, will be testing some models in shop then and target good offer when available.

You mentioned Heads once.
The Head eSpeed RD Worldcup 180/18 is a great ski also for your use. I like these over the Deacons.
For sure great skis, something I may adore on groomers, but the <70mm waist may be limiting the use on the full season. Or may need to be followed by another acquisition to have both skis, better on different more specialized conditions. Which is an alternative as well.
 
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DanishRider

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I might be guessing here, but would you happen to ski Portes de Soleil? If that is the case, you will face a ton of different snow conditions (have been skiing there a lot), and I would 100% go for the most versatile frontside ski I can find.

The area is quite low, but also recieves massive amounts of snow.
 
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Balsh

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I might be guessing here, but would you happen to ski Portes de Soleil? If that is the case, you will face a ton of different snow conditions (have been skiing there a lot), and I would 100% go for the most versatile frontside ski I can find.

The area is quite low, but also recieves massive amounts of snow.
Nice guess, I spend a lot of time there for sure and you describe it well.

All types of snow, with mainly medium to narrow pistes more than real wide groomers as some may imagine when I refer that I ski on groomers only. We usually do not see perfectly lean groomed tracks for more than 25% of the season in reality. (Which is sad as I like wide groomed tracks haha)

But definitely the reason why I target a 76 - 84mm waist, as a pure groomer ski is limited in such type of resort.
 
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Balsh

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the deacon 84 v-werks "feels" skinnier as its pretty nimble and fast edge to edge, but works great in skied out conditions due to width. it's the ski I ski most on piste, and I have 40-50 pairs of skis.

when I travel to alps and can only bring 1, its the deacon 84, same when I hit the slopes here. sometimes GF has this 1 ski maximum for short trips to slope
(I rent powskis, since if I bring powskis its never pow)
@anders_nor Did you try both Deacon 84 and V-Werks? Is there a real advantage going with the V-Werks to justify the costs delta, except that it is lighter?

In term of experience and ability to keep it for a long time is maintenance is properly handled, any differences?
 

DanishRider

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All types of snow, with mainly medium to narrow pistes more than real wide groomers as some may imagine when I refer that I ski on groomers only. We usually do not see perfectly lean groomed tracks for more than 25% of the season in reality. (Which is sad as I like wide groomed tracks haha)

But definitely the reason why I target a 76 - 84mm waist, as a pure groomer ski is limited in such type of resort.
Okay then we know what beast we are facing :) If you don’t do much off piste skiing there, you are definitely on the right track. I have been a great fan of the 90-100mm category before, but did hit the trigger on a pair of Kästle MX83’s, which isn’t very capable in soft snow, but extremely capable on pistes and cut up snow - Haven’t looked back since - The on-piste performance is just that much better, and if I was you, I would look in the direction of that category. I haven’t been skiing a ton in that category, and have manly been on Kästle and Stöckli, and have very little experience with Völkl - But you are on the right track:)
Have you considered Fischer Curv GT for a little bit of versatility? Would be in my list for skiing in PdS.
 

François Pugh

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I mainly skied mid-tier ski, like the Rossignol Pursuit 14x (170cm) with 72mm waist. Easy to ski, not demanding and allowing many mistakes, but not so much rewarding and start to feel limited with it. But liked the experience overall, just not getting emotions out of it if it means anything.

Also skied some times on an old Fischer GS ski in 177cm, found them great to ski but less versatile and 21m radius and more high speed hard snow oriented I felt. But had great time as well.

Thank you for the inputs, absolutely what I am looking for! There are plenty of pairs that would make a great work, the idea being to find the one I can go along with for some years. Ideally would need to participate to a skis test day, but not easy to find these days or I struggle to find the dates.

Do you feel that 84mm waist is somehow useless / not optimized on groomers (all snow, all shapes, all conditions not only perfectly lean groomed snow) and moguls?
Liked Fischer GS, considered Head SL, Do they still make Stockli SX? Also Head I speed. I've read that Alps on-piste is a lot like Quebec and Ontario snow.

Skiing in boots that are too big, considers the GS more high speed hrd snow oriented - implies wants something more low speed oriented. Once you have boots that can make your skis respond appropriately you might like high speed more. I hear the Alps certainly have enough vertical piste to get GS skis up to their design speed.

Want's more versatility, 75% of time not smooth groomer but more snow....hmm Deacon 76 Masters.

For what it's worth, I spent some time on left-over new ski-swap beginner-intermediate skis on groomers recently: a Deacon Lowrider 80 mm wide ski tip rocker and an narrower full cambered soft full cambered Speedzone 12, on groomed greens and blues that had lots of snow on them, enough for there to be piles/clumps/mini-moguls here and there from skiers pushing the snow around. While the Decon 80s were no race ski, they were not terrible, and they had a higher speed limit (not reached) than the Speedzone 12s (felt kind of rickety at fair to mid speeds) I had the other day - only skied greens and blues and did not ski very fast, still fast enough to know that reviews lie when they say the speedzone 12 does not have a low speed limit. My son (intermediate skier) found the Deacons quite stable when he was forced to follow the fall line more than he otherwise would have wanted due to traffic making him turn sooner and go less across the hill - he found the Speedzone 12s scary in that situation. He found the Deacons more work, but easier to ski.
 

anders_nor

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@anders_nor Did you try both Deacon 84 and V-Werks? Is there a real advantage going with the V-Werks to justify the costs delta, except that it is lighter?

In term of experience and ability to keep it for a long time is maintenance is properly handled, any differences?
I own both

the v-werks is better if your truely an advanced++ skier, if not, most prefer the regular

I usually ski them about 50 days before giving them to friends, so can't really say, some of my older pairs has 50-150 ski days on them now though as its buddies main skies as well after I've used them.

I'm on pair 4? 5? now :D
 
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Balsh

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Well at this point I feel that only testing will help to make the decision, but will be difficult to find a shop with such wide products range. Or will go blind and hope for the best haha. First priority being to change the boots.

All interesting picks with great performances I am sure, where giving it a try would be great in an ideal world.

- Völkl Deacon V-Werks or "Regular" Deacon 84
- Völkl Master 76
- Kastle MX83
- Rossignol Hero Plus Ti 78
- Fischer Curv GT 76

Liked Fischer GS, considered Head SL, Do they still make Stockli SX? Also Head I speed. I've read that Alps on-piste is a lot like Quebec and Ontario snow.
Never had the chance to ski in Canada, would say that in the Alps we have all type of snow and pistes shape depending on the resorts. But where I ski (2000 to 2500m altitude), you could start on a nicely groomed slop, going through a mogul for 200m then on pure ice to finish on soup on the very same piste. Not so much 10-15 km of nice wide groomers with easy snow half of the season unfortunately.

the v-werks is better if your truely an advanced++ skier, if not, most prefer the regular
Difficult to perfectly judge, but always skiing with local native skiiers and no difficulties to follow. Would be very different on a real SL or GS competition for sure, where I would not even be in the race, but more than fine on the day to day. Then am I good enough to smash down a very demanding ski and handle it good enough, no clue.

Depending on the review we hear we have mixed versions anyway, between the technical / commercial brief they receive from the producer, influenced or not by the sponsorship contract, and the personal feeling. Heard as much as "V Werks is super easy to ski and turn and perfect on groomers, high performance for medium efforts" than "V Werks can be overwhelming if not truly strong and expert skier, just does not want to kill you". Experience and test will decide.

I usually ski them about 50 days before giving them to friends, so can't really say, some of my older pairs has 50-150 ski days on them now though as its buddies main skies as well after I've used them.

I'm on pair 4? 5? now :D
Wow - That is a lot of pairs, must truly like them!

Overall more motivated by the V Werks or Kastle MX83, as can see them staying in my collection for 10 years and invest in a 65-70mm pair one day if really feel the day to be better equiped for blue bird nice groomers day.
 

anders_nor

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v-werks is the ski you get to flex on the crowd, and you will notice if you have a racing background or a LOT of ski experience

it's not any harder to ski than deacon 84, and they are both very friendly, but to access their full potential, you need to be a good skier, but you can put an intermediate on them, wont struggle, that tiny bit of rocker is key.

deacon 84/v-werks is a no holes barred ski as far as performance/stiffness/speeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed.

I'm a bit confused, do you have a racing background? yes no?
 
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Balsh

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v-werks is the ski you get to flex on the crowd, and you will notice if you have a racing background or a LOT of ski experience

it's not any harder to ski than deacon 84, and they are both very friendly, but to access their full potential, you need to be a good skier, but you can put an intermediate on them, wont struggle, that tiny bit of rocker is key.

deacon 84/v-werks is a no holes barred ski as far as performance/stiffness/speeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed.

I'm a bit confused, do you have a racing background? yes no?
No racing background - Only an advanced skier, that skied since he was born first as a tourist for >20yrs and now as a local since some years. So moving from 10 days / year to approx 40 days / yr now. Not a monster at all, very far from it, just a fairly great skier for someone who has 0 racing background according to people having such background.
 

anders_nor

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deacon 84 still awesome, but not sure you can feel the difference to a v-werks then.

the v-werks looks awesome, and its super rare, you will see 20-30 pairs of regular to 1 v-werks, so thats a +1 for the v-werks ;D
 
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Balsh

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deacon 84 still awesome, but not sure you can feel the difference to a v-werks then.

the v-werks looks awesome, and its super rare, you will see 20-30 pairs of regular to 1 v-werks, so thats a +1 for the v-werks ;D
And for skis to be kept for a while that matters ! Thanks for all the insights, much appreciated.

Only testing 84mm waist will tell me if that is what I am looking for (with OK boots, yes). If too wide, guess the right range will be 76ish mm.
 

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