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Expert ski pair / Groomers & Versatile

markojp

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he probably isn't now, but allready has experience. also 40 days is much more than average and with an instructor i think he will soon reach a level good enough.
here in europe snow is often lacking, so you find hard artificial, it later melts in moguls dkisuring the day, sometimes really iced. i had a pair of cheap rossi pursuit that used in semi-offpiste but i trashed them in 5 days and became uncontrollable, i also had elan allmountain and were simply not enough. i rented a few racecarve skis, ok-ish meh... not any better than the allmountain.
tried the rossignol LT ad are ok, head rebels speed also ok. but then i tested proper head GS and could finally feel really OK. SL are also useful for exercising, but i fear for my knees.

in my opinion with 40 days you must have some proper GS or SL, ok maybe you can start with a pair of allmountain but then buy a proper GS or "similarGS"
also consider that 40 days is probably near the average duration of a modern ski,

Again, which 'Speed'? There are three skis made by Head that have 'speed' in their description.

Lot's of 'I'... maybe more 'OP'. I think he's looking for something that might also ski some bumps and shallow off piste as well as building carving skills.
 
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Balsh

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Most of the reviews I have seen about Deacon 84 and Kendo 88 are great, could be paid in some cases for sure but seem to be consistent choice for versatility / performance / precision when carving at speed on medium turns. Kendo seem to be more stable on ice while the deacon apparently reaches a certain limit in this area, but less efforts involved to make them turn on shorter radius.

Liked also the proposal on the other brands in the thread (Rossi Hero Plus 76, Kastle MX83, Nanoun Atlas 80, ...), but choosing means eliminating so will test a few and make the choice. Or go blind if nice offer pops up.

At least these two seem relevant for the more pleasure-oriented days where still want a high performing ski, while could consider a second pair once better at it for the days where I want to be more demanding and focused. The kendo apparently behaves a bit like a GS ski on groomer; to what I have red.

For the Rossi Pursuit (Carbon version), only can relate that they are easy to ride but do not feel safe at speed and get hustled on icy moguls. Can only improve by changing on this area.

Boots
Appointment taken with a very well known boot fitter in the Alps, race oriented. Will purely follow their guidance, shut up and learn.

Looking at their website upfront I assume that the key models they have for med/wide foot as I have would be (i) Lange Rs 130 MV, (ii) Rossignol Hero WC, (iii) Head WC Raptor, and (iv) Nordica Dobermann 130. Maybe not. Let us see.
 

markojp

mtn rep for the gear on my feet
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Nov 12, 2015
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Location
PNW aka SEA
Boots
Appointment taken with a very well known boot fitter in the Alps, race oriented. Will purely follow their guidance, shut up and learn.

Looking at their website upfront I assume that the key models they have for med/wide foot as I have would be (i) Lange Rs 130 MV, (ii) Rossignol Hero WC, (iii) Head WC Raptor, and (iv) Nordica Dobermann 130. Maybe not. Let us see.

Alps? See Jules Mills in Chamonix.
 
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François Pugh

Skiing the powder
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Most of the reviews I have seen about Deacon 84 and Kendo 88 are great, could be paid in some cases for sure but seem to be consistent choice for versatility / performance / precision when carving at speed on medium turns. Kendo seem to be more stable on ice while the deacon apparently reaches a certain limit in this area, but less efforts involved to make them turn on shorter radius.

Liked also the proposal on the other brands in the thread (Rossi Hero Plus 76, Kastle MX83, Nanoun Atlas 80, ...), but choosing means eliminating so will test a few and make the choice. Or go blind if nice offer pops up.

At least these two seem relevant for the more pleasure-oriented days where still want a high performing ski, while could consider a second pair once better at it for the days where I want to be more demanding and focused. The kendo apparently behaves a bit like a GS ski on groomer; to what I have red.

For the Rossi Pursuit (Carbon version), only can relate that they are easy to ride but do not feel safe at speed and get hustled on icy moguls. Can only improve by changing on this area.

Boots
Appointment taken with a very well known boot fitter in the Alps, race oriented. Will purely follow their guidance, shut up and learn.

Looking at their website upfront I assume that the key models they have for med/wide foot as I have would be (i) Lange Rs 130 MV, (ii) Rossignol Hero WC, (iii) Head WC Raptor, and (iv) Nordica Dobermann 130. Maybe not. Let us see.
When you are demonstrating skis, pay close attention to the tune. It could be that your race ski demos had a better tune than the others. Sharp edges are what you need on ice. A more acute angle helps a bit too (0.5, 3 as opposed to 1,2).

As @markojp noted, Head plays the name game: sell more skis by naming them all the same as some very good ski that got a good reputation. So do a lot of ski companies. I wish they didn't. At 165 lbs I found the Fischer WC SC held fine on ice, and also had enough beef to make high-g turns and be stable at speeds well beyond what they should be skied at. However, they were designed for shorter turns and it sounds like you may be skiing faster than the speed at which those shorter turns are possible, so you should be looking for a longer radius ski, i.e. GS. Otherwise, you will be skiing those skis at speeds outside their design range; the skis will be stable and wont complain, but longer radius skis will cut a nice grove on hard snow (what folks out west call ice :P )and the shorter radius ski in the same turn will "rip" (on any type of snow surface). You will have to look at the numbers on those Head Skis and pick some of the longer radius skis to demo.
 
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Balsh

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3h later with an expert boot fitter, here I come with Head Raptor in 26.5 in 130 flex. No regret at all, going there is definitelw game changer, first try tomorrow. Might need to move the structure to gain half a size on the left foot, but finetunning is part of the process.

Moving from chill easy-going 28.5 / 90 flex to race boots 130 flex in 26.5 will be a choc at the beginning, but very much needed.
 
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Tony Storaro

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3h later with an expert boot fitter, here I come with Head Raptor in 26.5 in 130 flex. No regret at all, going there is definitelw game changer, first try tomorrow. Might need to move the structure to gain half a size on the left foot, but finetunning is part of the process.

Moving from chill easy-going 28.5 / 90 flex to race boots 130 flex in 26.5 will be a choc at the beginning, but very much needed.
:ogbiggrin: :ogbiggrin: :ogbiggrin:

So, from 28.5 90 flex boots to 26.5 130 flex Raptors, THAT'S what I call an upgrade, well done! A quantum leap basically.
These can drive basically any ski out there once you get used to them.
 

HootSki

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Yes, that Raptor is one hell of a boot! I have the RS140 (130 flex) and it has been my favorite over the Nordica GPX 130, Lange RS130, Atomic Club Sport 130, and Rossignol All Speed Elite 130 which I also own.
 
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Balsh

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Yep first feeling is amazing on track, and no regret on 130 flex as it feels perfectly fine. The perfect snow of the alps surely help these days as well.

Will just need to gain space on top of the foot as blood is not flowing perfectly and is terribly painful on the chairlift.

But as they say, you usually can gain space but not reduce it.
 
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Balsh

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Might be the final question of this thread, for those who skied the Volkl Deacon 76 master and Deacon V Werks.

Would you highly recommend going to 177cm version, or would the 172 be juste fine so that the radius is shorter and is easier to handle in moguls? I am 185 (maybe 184 now :ogbiggrin: ), currently riding a 170cm ski. Or is there no real difference in reality between the two?

As I like skis that are maneuverable.
 
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Tony Storaro

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Might be the final question of this thread, for those who skied the Volkl Deacon 76 master and Deacon V Werks.

Would you highly recommend going to 177cm version, or would the 172 be juste fine so that the radius is shorter and is easier to handle in moguls? I am 185 (maybe 184 now :ogbiggrin: ), currently riding a 170cm ski. Or is there no real difference in reality between the two?

As I like skis that are maneuverable.

I am a touch shorter than you (183) and find the 177 VWerks super easy to flick around.
 

anders_nor

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GF is 172, she rides the 172

buddy is 172-175, he's on the 182

I'm on the 182 because... they only make short skis.


the deacon 84 v-werks is DRASTICLY more beginner friendly than 76 master, but still has "unlimited" topend, I think thats probably your ski honestly. and easier to learn and look good on.
 
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Balsh

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Only concern with V Werks is their ability on ice, as in the resorts I go you usually cannot escape 2h of icy slopes per day. But for sure remain the top 1 target in the wish list.

Gosh these new boots are great but need the legs to fully ramp up, as full speed all day long requires much more effort than before but also rewards time infinity more.
 

Tony Storaro

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Only concern with V Werks is their ability on ice, as in the resorts I go you usually cannot escape 2h of icy slopes per day. But for sure remain the top 1 target in the wish list.

Gosh these new boots are great but need the legs to fully ramp up, as full speed all day long requires much more effort than before but also rewards time infinity more.

With good tuning (1/3) and sharp edges-no worries on ice. They however are noisy. You might want to consider the regular Deacon 84. @anders_nor will tell you more about the difference between the two.
 
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Balsh

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At this point more tempted by the V Werks following the discussion on the thread, but for sure differences between both must be considered. Will also depend on the opportunities, TBD.
 

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