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Flexed Extension vs the other thing...

markojp

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OK I stand corrected for WC racers.

But is even a 'real' race boot from the factory not a starting point, a blank to mold to the skier? Every skier has some differences in anatomy.

What do you do with a skier, even an expert or good club racer, who has limited range of ankle flexion? Or some one with a long femur? So that when they flex/extend in a std boot their COM shifts to the back seat

What do compentent coaches & intructors do?

I have limited dorsiflexion. I set up my own boots, a friend builds my footbeds. I have eyes on my skiing. I'm also fairly self-aware of what my skis are doing on the snow.

For clients, i look at their boot set up, alignment, etc..., if there's an apparent problem, then refer them to a couple of people i trust, and communicate with them what I've seen in their sking to start the 'sorting out gear' process.

If i have time, I'll work on their boots myself.
 

RoninSkier

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I have limited dorsiflexion. I set up my own boots, a friend builds my footbeds. I have eyes on my skiing. I'm also fairly self-aware of what my skis are doing on the snow.

For clients, i look at their boot set up, alignment, etc..., if there's an apparent problem, then refer them to a couple of people i trust, and communicate with them what I've seen in their sking to start the 'sorting out gear' process.

If i have time, I'll work on their boots myself.
Ah a real instructor, a student of the beautiful sport.
 

dj61

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Some people mentioned that extension in transition is a major part of alpine ski instruction. And it is. In France, Switzerland, Italy and Austria. However it is not because they propagate the upward movement as such. It helps skiers to experience the fact that they need to get ‘down’ and forward into the turn. What they teach you as well is that you never come upright with your upperbody.
 

Rod9301

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Some people mentioned that extension in transition is a major part of alpine ski instruction. And it is. In France, Switzerland, Italy and Austria. However it is not because they propagate the upward movement as such. It helps skiers to experience the fact that they need to get ‘down’ and forward into the turn. What they teach you as well is that you never come upright with your upperbody.
Right, they teach skiers to bend their knees in the turn and extend in transition. When they should have their outside leg straight in the turn, then flex in transition
Totally backwards
 

Swiss Toni

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The ski instruction provided by the national ski schools in the alps is mainly targeted at tourists, i.e., skiers from outside the mountain villages. Skiers that are brought up in the mountain villages usually start skiing with their parents / relatives at around 3 years old and join the village ski club when they are about 6 years old and start race training. Canton Valais in southwest Switzerland has 96 Alpine ski clubs; it is highly unlikely that the likes of Loïc and Melanie Meillard, Daniel Yule, Ramon Zenhäusern etc. ever went to ski school.
 
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Rod9301

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The ski instruction provided by the national ski schools in the alps is mainly targeted at tourists, i.e., skiers from outside the mountain villages. Skiers that are brought up in the mountain villages usually start skiing with their parents / relatives at around 3 years old and join the village ski club when they are about 6 years old and start race training. Canton Valais in southwest Switzerland has 96 Alpine ski clubs; it is highly unlikely that the likes of Loïc and Melanie Meillard, Daniel Yule, Ramon Zenhäusern etc. ever went to ski school.
And the cost of race teams for kids is about 10 percent of what it costs in the US
 

dj61

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it is highly unlikely that the likes of Loïc and Melanie Meillard, Daniel Yule, Ramon Zenhäusern etc. ever went to ski
Right, they teach skiers to bend their knees in the turn and extend in transition. When they should have their outside leg straight in the turn, then flex in transition
Totally backwards
Well it is evident that the alpine nations are clueless when it comes to skiing and ski instruction.
Here you can see Richie Berger messing things up.
 
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Juanito

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Well it is evident that the alpine nations are clueless when it comes to skiing and ski instruction.
Here you can see Richie Berger messing things up.
Total mess. Why would anyone want such patience and smoothness through transition?
 

geepers

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Right, they teach skiers to bend their knees in the turn and extend in transition. When they should have their outside leg straight in the turn, then flex in transition
Totally backwards

Outside leg straight? Surely it an extended leg but typically a little flexed.

1678139096267.png
1678139151912.png
1678139176419.png
1678139218487.png


Occasionally there's an image of an absolutely straight outside leg - but doesn't seem that common.

1678139427508.png



As for Euro nations... seems some extend at transition, some don't.



And expect much depends on what they are demo-ing at the time.

Here you can see Richie Berger messing things up.

That'll catch a few. :thumb:

Lately Berger seems to have removed the problem of people misinterpreting what he's showing by saying/writing nothing in the way of explanation. Maybe that's a good idea. :huh:
 

Scruffy

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^^ yup- a slightly flexed leg is stronger than a completely straight leg. Ask an Olympic weight lifter.
 

dan ross

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I think there is a tendency to get doctrinaire with technique and what constitutes a proper turn. Keep in mind that todays “ best practice /ideal turn” will be in the dust bin sooner than you think. When I was a Jr. racer I wanted to imitate Gustavo Thoeni who was revolutionary in his approach in the technical events. Then Stemmark came along, built on some of it , then Tomba , etc. All the great skiers add something to the evolution . For recreational skiers using WC racers as a litmus test is an extremely high bar - these are young, elite ,athletes who train 12 months of the year and they are usually winded after a race
I agree with @RoninSkier , in that you should do what works for you , within your capabilities and limitations and allows you to have fun . The beauty of skiing is that there is more than one way to make a good turn.
 

dj61

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Of course, i meant mostly straight, stacked, to withstand the g forces
No not mostly straight. You cannot edge a ski with a straight leg. You can lengthen your leg in the turn when you have your skis on edge. Being stacked has nothing to do with it.
 
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Zirbl

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OK I stand corrected for WC racers.
Oh, not for me to correct anyone in a race discussion. Was asking since I believe that to be the trend, but it also seems set-ups and theories can change quickly in racing and a recent tech manual could easily be out of date.

ut is even a 'real' race boot from the factory not a starting point, a blank to mold to the skier? Every skier has some differences in anatomy.

What do you do with a skier, even an expert or good club racer, who has limited range of ankle flexion? Or some one with a long femur? So that when they flex/extend in a std boot their COM shifts to the back seat
Certainly not suggesting it's the same across the board.
 

Rod9301

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No not mostly straight. You cannot edge a ski with a straight leg. You can lengthen your leg in the turn when you have your skis on edge. Being stacked has nothing to do with it.
I'm not talking about transitions, but about when the skis are on edge right before and after the fall line
 

dj61

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I'm not talking about transitions, but about when the skis are on edge right before and after the fall line
Well you can keep repeating it but that does not make it any truer. Try straightening your leg before the fall line. See how that works out for you.
 

Rod9301

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Well you can keep repeating it but that does not make it any truer. Try straightening your leg before the fall line. See how that works out for you.
As soon as i feel pressure returning, i start straightening my outside leg. And it's working pretty well, as I'm able to withstand the pressure, then i keep extending my outside leg into it's time to relax it in transition, which makes for a very fast edge change. Of course a flex to release.
Sorry that this not agree with the psia mantra. But I'm convinced they will change when the old people in charge will retire.
 
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James

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I would think an absolute straight leg would lose a lot of muscle protection for the knee, plus the risk of hyper extension with the changing ground reaction.
 

Rod9301

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I would think an absolute straight leg would lose a lot of muscle protection for the knee, plus the risk of hyper extension with the changing ground reaction.
Who said anything about a perfectly straight leg?
 

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